The World War Forum (Page 89)

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Posted by: Kez {No contact email}
Location: Sydney
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 10:01 PM
Good morning Alan,
Would you be able to find any info for me please on Thomas Henry Larkey in WW1 please. He was born about 1900 London. I believe he joined in 1918
With thanks Kez
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 10:53 PM

Dear Kez,
Thomas Henry Larkey was born on May 28th 1900. He was baptised on June 1st 1900 at Bromley St Leonard and St Mary church, London, the son of Thomas Henry and Ellen Caroline of 35 Hancock Road, Bromley-by-Bow.
Because of his date of birth, he would have been compulsorily conscripted when he attained the age of 18 and one month. From 1916, the Military Service Acts considered every man of military age to be under military law and Thomas Larkey's record showed he was "deemed to have been enlisted" on 29th May 1918 and he was actually called-up on 21st June 1918 in Central London. He trained as a rifleman in the 53rd Young Soldier Battalion of the King's Royal Rifle Corps (KRRC) at Northampton until July 1918 when he was posted to the 51st (Graduated) Battalion KRRC in the training reserve stationed at Colchester. He was discharged on 24th January 1919 after being a recruit in uniform in England for seven months.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kez
Date: Monday 12th May 2014 at 4:51 AM

Many thanks Alan, I appreciate your help,
Cheers Kez
Posted by: Eleanor Cole {Email left}
Location: Clipstone
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 8:50 PM
Dear Alan,
I have just been looking on pages that mention Clipstone Camp. My husbands Grandfather died there and I, with my late husband, moved to a new house on the site 12 years ago. A local historian, Pauline Marple,, has produced a book all about the camp and the surrounding area of Mansfield.
This October there is to be an Exhibition at Mansfield Museum on the centenary of the camp and Pauline is anxious to produce as much information as she can find for this event and it seems that many of your subscribers have had family members passing through which is not surprising as it was a camp for 30,000 troops
I have told her about your amazing site and, who knows, there might be some more feed back from this email.

Posted by: Eleanor Cole {Email left}
Location: Clipstone
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 8:03 PM
Alan, first of all, what is your chosen charity please?

Do you have any information about the service of

Cpl A V Waddington 35677 5th Inf.Labour Coy. Labour corps.who died Dec 5th 1918 age 31 Husband of E.R. Waddington of 170 Ashville Rd,. Grove Green Rd. Leytonstone, London.
Eleanor.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 10:54 PM

Dear Eleanor,
No individual military service records have survived for Corporal A.V. Waddington o it is not possible to be specific about his service. The CWGC Debt of Honour recorded he first served with the Leicestershire Regiment. An Army medal rolls index-card showed he went to France on 29th July 1915 with the Leicestershire Regiment. That was the date the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th Battalions of the Leicestershire Regiment went to France with the 110th Infantry Brigade in the 37th Division. The 110th Infantry Brigade had been formed in April 1915 from battalions raised in August and September 1914, so it is probable that he enlisted voluntarily at the beginning of the war. It is likely that he had been wounded; returned to England; and, on recovery, transferred to the Labour Corps as a result of not being fit enough to serve again at the Front. For the engagements of the 37th Division see:
http://www.1914-1918.net/37div.htm

It is probable he was Albert Victor Waddington born at Mile End Old Town, London whose birth was registered in July-Aug-Sept 1887. June 20th 1887 was Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee so he was named after Queen Victoria and the Prince Consort Albert. He was recorded as a cutler's grinder in 1911. He appears to have married Elizabeth Harrison in the last quarter of 1917 at Mile End Old Town.
He had enlisted in the Lincolnshire Regiment with the regimental number 35677 (although his medal card stated 15023). Albert later served in an unidentified "5th Labour Company" which was not necessarily in the Labour Corps. Other Corps such as the Army Service Corps and the Royal Engineers had Labour Companies. Neither the CWGC nor the medal card listed another regimental number for the Labour Corps other than 25878, so it seems probable that he served in 5th Labour Company Labour Corps. At some stage he was transferred to the 377th Home Service Employment Company Labour Corps. It would appear he was in the UK by mid to late 1917 as he married in October - December 1917.
Albert qualified for the 1914-15 Star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. His death was registered as a civilian (i.e. not war) GRO death at Southwell, Nottinghamshire, so he probably died in hospital or at "home". His medal card recorded him as dec[eased] 5.12.18.
My selected charity is the Royal British Legion. There is a link at the top of this page.
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Brian Renshall {Email left}
Location: Rainhill
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 6:36 PM
Alan,Could I through your web site let you know about an event which will be taking place in Latour en Woevre in France on 24th,May this year.On that day Lts.R.I.A.Hickes & T.A.Jones will be honoured with a "poppy laying" ceremony at which Souvenir Francais(which I think is similar to our British Legion) French War Veterans,local dignitaries and the people of the village (pop 92 !) followed by a reception in the village hall. The two airmen(Hickes was the pilot,Jones the observer) were returning from a bombing raid in Germany when they were shot down(its all on the internet) and crashed near the church in Latour en Woevre.Rainhill Civic Society have been carrying research on the men from our village who died in WW1 ready for a commemorative event later this year.Jones was born in Rainhill & after reading his story we contacted the Mayor of Latour en Woevre and asked for photos of the graves,they are 'not' in a military cemetery but in the churchyard.The people of Latour have long wondred about the two airmen who they say died for France and are delighted that we have made contact.The Civic Society sent over the crosses simply asking if they could be laid on the two graves but as you can see the village have gone above and beyond.Hickes was born in Market Weighton,East Yorkshire and the local newspaper there are to run the story
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 6:52 PM

Dear Brian,
It is pleasing to hear that the people of Latour and Rainhill are commemorating the incident in which Lieutenants Hickes and Jones were killed. Focussing on individuals after so many years is an important aspect of the centenary of the outbreak of the First World War and the residents of Latour have gone to some lengths to mark the occasion. I wish you well with the Civic Society's event later in the year.
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Margaret {Email left}
Location: Conwy
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 4:17 PM
Hello Alan,

I am searching for information about my Grandfather, Joseph Worley Edwin Nicholls, born in Sculcoates in 1895. I understand he served in the East Yorkshire Regiment and obtained the rank of Sergeant. I was told by my Uncle that Joseph was a prisoner of war but that he never spoke about it. I know this is not much to go on but I would really appreciate any help you can give me.

Kind regards
Margaret.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 6:53 PM

Dear Margaret,
Unfortunately, there is insufficient information to identify a specific Joseph Nicholls in the surviving army records. Details of Prisoners of War are held by the archives of the International Committee of the Red Cross in Geneva, and will be accessible in August 2014. See:
http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/article/other/archives-first-world-war-2011-07-27.htm

With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Margaret
Date: Saturday 10th May 2014 at 7:23 PM

Dear Alan,

Thank you for your very prompt reply. I have been trying for some time to get my Grandfather's (Joseph Nicholls) army number from family members so far without without success. As soon as I receive it I will contact you again. In the meantime I will wait until August and see what that brings.

Kind regards
Margaret.

Posted by: Eleanor Cole {Email left}
Location: Clipstone Notts
Date: Friday 9th May 2014 at 8:55 AM
Dear Alan,
With reference to Charles Edward Cole...
I have found out that his army No. during service in 1800s with Royal West Surrey 2nd Bat Queens Regiment was 4051. You said that you needed numbers to help identify the correct person. although from what you have already told me you have found the right man.
In the 1914/ 1918 war when he re enlisted , his number was 240956.
I have a photo of a cane (swagger stick) that he owned which is dark wood and silver topped.It shows a crown with the word Peninsula below then underneath a stylised 8 pointed cross with a circle within
showing a central bugle and words round the edge which read ROYAL RIFLES and one other word which looks like SORIY followed by something I can,t read. There is a depiction of a wavy ribbon under that
Do you think that cane was given to him as part of his rank? Did he indeed receive promotion during either of his two periods of service 1800s or 14/18.?
Thank you so much for all your help as I understand many papers were lost due to fire and those that survived are difficult to read.
Yours Sincerely,...Eleanor.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 9th May 2014 at 4:02 PM

Dear Eleanor,
Swagger sticks were commonplace during the First World War and could be carried by all ranks when walking out, so a stick was not evidence of a particular rank. Sergeant Majors on parade might have carried a drill cane. Canes were not used on operations. The wording was "The King's Royal Rifles". Within the ribbon the wording was Celer et Audax, the regimental motto: "Swift and Bold".
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Eleanor Cole {Email left}
Location: Clipstone
Date: Thursday 8th May 2014 at 4:05 PM
To ALAN,
firstly, thank you for clarifying my thoughts about Henry Rosewell.

My husbands other Grandfather also served in other wars.His name was Charles Edward Cole (sometimes noted as Edward Charles Cole) born in Bagshot Surrey to William and Mary Cole 19/9/1873. He had already enlisted in the army when he met and married Rosa Jane Harding 19/10/1898 in Worplesdon Surrey.I think that he served overseas in India(?) Africa Tegula Heights and Ladysmith (Boer?),returned,was pensioned due to ill health 30/11/1900 served with v. good behaviour. He tried to re enlist in 1914 and I know that at sometime he was a Sergeant Major.
Did he serve again in 1914 and were there any medals?
He lived out his life in Walton on Thames Surrey growing Chrysanthemums finally dying on26/7/1950.
Sincerely, Eleanor.

I posted this originally on the reply page in error.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th May 2014 at 5:52 PM

Dear Eleanor,
It is generally not possible to identify military records by a man's name only, as it is necessary to know his regiment and regimental number, especially as many records only used the man's initials, surname and regimental number.
However, there was a Charles Edward Cole, a gardener, born 1873, who lived at 18 Florence Road, Walton-on-Thames, in 1914, who had previously served in the 2nd Queens (Royal West Surrey) from 1891 to 1900. He appears to be the same Charles Edward Cole listed in the 1911 census as a market gardener and army pensioner living at Worplesdon.
During the First World War he enlisted, at the age of 41, on 6th December 1915. He joined the 15th Battalion King's Royal Rifle Corps, which was a training and reserve battalion based in England at Seaford. Such training and reserve battalions were also used on coastal defence duties. On the 1st September 1916, the 15th Battalion KRRC was re-named the 18th Training Reserve Battalion.
On 16th June 1917, Charles was transferred from the 18th Training Reserve to the army's Labour Corps and was employed by an un-named Employment Company of the Labour Corps in the Nottingham region. Many employment companies were occupied with farming. Charles was discharged from the Labour Corps on 20th March 1919. He did not serve overseas during the First World War and therefore did not qualify for any campaign medals.
He stated he had previously served nine years and was a pensioner of the 2nd Queen's. Military records form that period are scant so it is not possible to state if he served all of his nine years with 2nd Queens. If he was discharged on 30th November 1900 and he had served nine years, he would have enlisted in 1891. The 2nd Queens was at Dinapore in India in 1892. The Battalion moved to Dover, England, in February 1894 and then to Woking in 1895. In September 1897 the Battalion moved to Aldershot. They were sent to South Africa at the outbreak of the Second Anglo-Boer War (11 October 1899 31 May 1902) and were on the Modder River on 28th November 1899. In 1900 they were involved in operations in Transvaal, Orange Free State, and Natal. Charles Cole certainly served in South Africa with the 2nd Queen's for a few months from October 1899 to about March 1900 when he was returned to England "invalided". His name does not appear on the available casualty lists, so it is probable he suffered illness rather than wounds. The South Africa medal rolls recorded Private 4051 Charles Cole 2nd Battalion Queen's qualified for the Queen's South Africa Medal with three clasps: The state clasp "Orange Free State" for general service there after 28 February 1900; "Relief of Ladysmith" (15 December 1899 28 February 1900 (Natal)) and "Tugela Heights" (1227 February 1900 (Natal)).
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Eleanor Cole {Email left}
Location: Uk
Date: Wednesday 7th May 2014 at 9:04 PM
My husbands Grandfather, Henry Rosewell was born March 21st 1871 in Shepperton Middx. He went to support a friend who wanted to enlist but the friend failed the medical so the officer asked Henry instead and although he was 44 he was declared fit. He was in the RAMC a private no.80575 no.8 Coy (York) and when he died at Clipstone Camp 3/12/1916. It was from TB. The family always said that he was wounded in France but I couldn't find out if this was true or not. He is buried in a War Grave at Forest Town (St. Alban) Churchyard Notts.
I have lived on the site of the former Clipstone Camp for 12 years not knowing then that he had died there and I have a book about the camp which lists Henrys war Grave with others.
Is it possible to find out, if in his short service life he did or not serve in France and get wounded?

Yours Sincerely, E P Cole.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 7th May 2014 at 10:27 PM

Dear Eleanor,
There is no evidence to suggest Henry Rosewell served in France, or was wounded. His individual service record does not state he served overseas, or that he was wounded. There is no entry for him in the Army medal rolls index, suggesting he did not serve overseas as he did not qualify for any campaign medals. Henry, of Charlston Road, Shepperton, enlisted on November 2nd 1915 at Kingston upon Thames and joined the Royal Army Medical Corps with the regimental number 80575 on November 9th 1915. He passed a course of instruction on 17th March 1916 and on 1st June 1916 was posted to No 8 Company RAMC, which in the 1914 order of battle was based in Northern Command at York. Henry was admitted to Clipstone Military Hospital on 3rd October 1916 suffering tuberculosis of the lung. He died on 3rd December 1916.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Eleanor Cole
Date: Thursday 8th May 2014 at 7:38 AM

Thank you so much for confirming what I had been thinking about Henry Rosewell.
My husbands other grandparent also served in other wars. His name was Charles Edward Cole born in Bagshot Surrey to William and Mary Cole 19/9/1873...He had already enlisted in the Army when he met and married Rosa Jane Harding 19/10/1898 in Worplesdon .I think that he served in a war overseas Tegula Heights and Ladysmith ( Boer?) and india returned was pensioned 30/11/1900 and tried to enlist in 1914 but know very little although I believe that he became a Sergeant Major at some point in his first period of service. He lived out his life in Walton on Thames dying 26/7/1950. Did he receive any medals?
Sincerely, Eleanor Cole.
Reply from: Eleanor
Date: Thursday 8th May 2014 at 9:41 AM

Charles Edward Cole as on his birth was sometimes listed as Edward Charles Cole just to confuse research.
Eleanor.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th May 2014 at 5:53 PM

Dear Eleanor,
Don't worry about the double post. I've replied to this above.
Alan
Posted by: Vera Joan Mary Lake {Email left}
Location: Leatherhead
Date: Wednesday 7th May 2014 at 11:25 AM
Hi,
My father served in the 13th East surrey Regiment,1915/1971, told Regimental Sargent Major, wounded in France Any info on him please. name Mr thomas James Lake
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 7th May 2014 at 5:58 PM

Dear Vera,
Thomas James Lake stated his date of birth was 2nd October 1881, Kentish Town, London. He married Florence Emily Molineaux on 17th February 1904 at East Preston Registry Office, Littlehampton, Sussex. In 1914, they had seven children. Thomas was described as being 6ft 3ins tall, of dark complexion with dark hair and grey eyes. He had a tattoo of a snake on his left forearm. He was a "scenic artist". The family lived at 35, Dalby Road, Wandsworth, London.
On the third day of war, 7th August 1914, Thomas enlisted in the 2nd/23rd (County of London) Battalion The London Regiment at St John's Hill, Clapham Junction, and he formally joined the Battalion the next day, August 8th. He was promoted to sergeant and served with this Battalion for 320 days at Frinton-on-Sea, until 24th July 1915. He stated that he had had rheumatic fever as a child and could not undertake strenuous exercise. He was discharged on 24th July 1915 but he tried to re-enlist and was initially turned down for re-enlistment until he was accepted on August 6th 1915 after Thomas applied to join the locally-raised 13th Battalion East Surrey Regiment which was being recruited by the Mayor of Wandsworth. He first served as an acting Sergeant. On 16th September 1915 he was appointed Company Sergeant Major with the 13th Battalion which was then at Witley Camp, Surrey. On 22nd February 1916 he arrived in France having been posted to the 9th Battalion East Surrey Regiment. He was sent to France and passed through the 39th Division Infantry Base Depot at Etaples to become the Regimental Sergeant Major of the 9th Battalion East Surrey regiment which served with the 72nd Infantry Brigade in the 24th Division. On June 3rd he was posted to the 13th Battalion again upon their arrival in France. They served with the 120th Infantry Brigade in the 40th Division. The Division moved to France between 2nd and 6th June 1916 and first concentrated near Lillers. It then served between June and late October 1916 in trenches on the front near Loos en Gohelle in the Pas de Calais. The 40th Division fought at The Battle of the Ancre (13th 18th November 1916).
On 4th January 1917 Thomas reverted to the appointment of Company Sergeant Major.
On the 13th February 1917, after serving 355 days in France, he returned to the UK. On 31st August 1917 he was discharged as an invalid from the Army having Valvular Disease of the Heart.
He qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. He received a silver War Badge for being discharged through sickness.
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Tamnylennan {Email left}
Location: Stewartstown
Date: Tuesday 6th May 2014 at 2:17 PM
I had a great uncle Hugh Girvan who enlisted in regular army (circa 1896), survived a gas attack in WW1 and died as an army pensioner in Ulster Volunteer Hospital, Botanic Ave Belfast in 1925. There are several references to a Hugh Girvan in Medal Card Index
Medal card of Girvan, Hugh. Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Irish Rifles 9491 Private. Leinster Regiment 20265 Private.
Reference:WO 372/8/28153
Medal card of Girvan, Hugh. Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Irish Regiment 2792 Private.
Reference:WO 372/8/28150
Medal card of Girvan, Hugh. Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Garrison Artillery 152568 Gunner.
Reference:WO 372/8/28148
Would it be possible to find out further details and in particular if any of these 3 gave a Stewartstown, Co Tyrone address on enlisting.
Thanking all kindly in anticipation.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 6th May 2014 at 5:43 PM

Unfortunately, there don't appear to be any further surviving documents to help identify these men.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Scott
Date: Monday 24th November 2014 at 9:52 PM

I no the hugh girvan 9491 was my grand fathers uncle. I have been doing some research myself about him. He did not pass away untill the 1970's. This might narrow your search down to another man..
Reply from: Tamnylennan
Date: Tuesday 25th November 2014 at 1:31 AM

Thank you for this information.

Had this Hugh been in both Royal Irish Rifles and Leinster Regiment?

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