Alan Greveson's World War I Forum (Page 64)

Hi Alan, Thank you so much again. I'm so amazed. I have made another donation to the RBL.

My next man is a bit of a mystery to me as I'm not finding much on him.

John Cecil Blackburn DSO (Russia) MC and Russian Order of Saint Anne. He served in WW1 with the West Yorkshire Regt. Sorry, I don't have his date of birth.

Thank You

Ray

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 29th September 2011 at 8:48 PM
Dear Ray,
John Cecil Blackburn was born on 14th April 1891 at Rawalpindi, India. In 1901 he appeared to be among the pupils of the Rev Walter Robinson at Ravenfield Vicarage, Rotherham, Yorkshire, with two brothers (1901 England census RG13/4403 folio 50 page 30). It was common for young children of army officers to be educated privately by clergymen.
In June 1909, John Cecil Robinson entered the Royal Military College at Sandhurst. He was commissioned into the Prince of Wales's Own West Yorkshire Regiment on October 5th 1910.
"The undermentioned Gentlemen Cadets from The Royal Military College, to be Second Lieutenants. Dated 5th October, 1910". (Gazette Issue 28421 published on the 4 October 1910).
He joined the 1st Battalion at Connaught Barracks, Rawalpindi, Punjab, India.
On 10th October 1912 he was promoted to Lieutenant, after the standard two years service as a second Lieutenant.
A year later he took up an unusual appointment. He must have returned to the UK as he sailed from Liverpool to Lagos on October 29th 1913, as a single "soldier" on SS "Abosso" destined for British West Africa. The London Gazette of the time recorded: "The Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire
Regiment), Lieutenant John C. Blackburn is seconded for service under the Colonial Office. Dated 29th October, 1913. (Gazette Issue 28773 published on the 14 November 1913). Such appointments were sometimes connected with intelligence work in peacetime. However, at the time, the Royal West African Frontier Force was being considered as an amalgamation of the Northern and Southern Nigeria Regiments, with which he later served. The RWAFF was formed on January 1st 1914.

Details of his wartime service are not precise. His medal index card showed he did not qualify for the 1914 Star. It recorded he was in theatre of war (4a) on 13th August 1914. This was East Africa, Nyasaland (now Malawi) and Northern Rhodesia. The area between Lake Tanganyika and Lake Nyasa formed the border between Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland (British) and German East Africa. An Allied naval blockade of the East African coast off Zanzibar started on August 8th 1914 and the first land battle was on August 15th 1914 at Neu Moshi. John Blackburn's medal card showed he entered France on 23rd April 1915. He had been appointed a Captain on 21st October 1914.

His qualification for the 1914-15 Star (which was impressed "Lieut. J.C. Blackburn. W.York.R.")
was contained on page 3 of the medal roll numbered Col/5/25 which is held at the National Archives in Catalogue reference WO 329/2936 "Nigeria Regiment miscellaneous: medal rolls 1914-15 Star".

He apparently served seconded to the Nigeria Regiment from 1913 to 22 January 1915. He appears to have served in France with the 2nd Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment (medal card) as a Captain. He was Mentioned in Despatches as a Captain on January 1st 1916 (and on two other occasions) He was awarded the Military Cross on January 14th 1916. The medal was inscribed "Capt. J.C. Blackburn. 2/ West Yorkshire. 27.6.16."

The London Gazette recorded "SPECIAL APPOINTMENTS. (Graded for purposes of pay as a Staff Capt.)—Capt. J. C. Blackburn, M.C., W. York. R. and Nigeria R., from llth Dec. 1916 to 27th
Apr. 1917 (Gazette Issue 30411 published on the 30 November 1917). He may have returned to Africa as the ship's manifest of SS "Abinsi" recorded John Cecil Blackburn sailing from Lagos "soldier", 26, to Liverpool arriving 24th September 1917. His address on the manifest was the same as the address on his medal card: 24, Oakley Avenue, Ealing, W5.

The Nigeria Regiment had five battalions which formed the Royal West African Frontier Force and which fought in both West and East Africa. The 2nd Bn West Yorkshire Regiment served in France and Flanders.

On 20th August 1918 he was promoted to acting Major while serving on the HQ of a Battalion. He remained an acting Major until relinquishing the rank on 26th November 1919.

The North Russian Relief Force was raised from former servicemen who volunteered in April 1919 to join the expedition which was sent to Archangel to extricate the British and allied troops who had spent the winter of 1918/1919 in North Russia and had been kept there when the seas froze for the winter. The War Office placed an advertisement in The Times newspaper on April 10th 1919 calling for volunteers and the advance guard set sail the next day anticipating the ice on the Dvina River would melt between April 12th and 16th.

Major John Blackburn was attached to the specially-raised 46th Battalion Royal Fusiliers which included some Australian volunteers. The Battalion served with the Brigade commanded by Brig Gen Lionel Sadlier-Jackson. They sailed on SS "Porto" and SS "Stephen" arriving at Archangel on 5 June 1919 and moved up the Dvina River to a camp at Osinova. They engaged the enemy 200 miles South of Archangel in numerous "non-defensive" fights including North of Empsta in August 1919 and a rear-guard action at the Sheila River in September. The Relief Force left Russia from September 26 –27 September and Murmansk was evacuated on 12 October with the troops sailing for Glasgow.

Major Blackburn was awarded the Order of St Anna Third Class with "swords and ribband". This was a breast badge in silver-gilt and enamel on a ribband of red with yellow edges.

"War Office, 3rd February, 1920. The KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the undermentioned rewards, on the recommendation of the General Officer Commanding – in - Chief, Allied Forces, for distinguished service in connection with Military Operations in Archangel, North. Russia. Dated llth November,1919, unless otherwise stated: — AWARDED THE DISTINGUISHED SERVICE ORDER. Capt. A./Maj.) John Cecil Blackburn, M.C.,W. York. R., attd. 46th Bn., R. Fus." (London Gazette 3 Feb 1920).

He also qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal with emblems for the MIDs. The emblem qualification was submitted by the OC 1st Battalion PWO West Yorkshire Regiment in February 1920, so John could have returned to the 1st Battalion after coming back from Russia. He retired on July 26th 1922 and was granted a gratuity and the rank of Major.

Kind regards,
Alan

I wouldn't mind a little rest now (said with a smile).

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Reply from: Ray
Date: Friday 30th September 2011 at 5:45 AM
Alan, Thank you again. I fail to find words to describe the talent you have.

Your rest sir is well deserved. My work now begins following the work you have done for me.

I will be in touch once I have done my side.

Thank you so much.

Regards and best wishes.

Ray

Hi Alan, I still stunned by the information you can find! My next brave man is Joseph Edward Danthorpe Stickney. He was awarded a DSO and MC and Bar.

Thank you so very much.

Ray

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 28th September 2011 at 8:24 PM
Dear Ray,
Joseph Edward Danthorpe Stickney was born in the summer of 1881, the son of Walter Mennell Stickney and his wife Sophia who lived at Danthorpe Hall, Danthorpe. Walter, and his father Joseph (born about 1793) appear to have been Quakers, and Walter attended Ackworth School for children of the Society of Friends. Walter became a farmer of more than a thousand acres, employing 29 men and boys and eventually he became the first county councillor for the Aldbrough Division of the East Riding.
When he was young, Joseph had a governess, Alice Pole. He eventually sat his Law Society exams on June 15th and 16th 1903 and became a solicitor the same year. He played tennis at county level. His practice was in Hull where he went into partnership with Basil Kelsey Barton. The partnership was mutually dissolved in May 1919. Joseph married Mabelle E Le Motter in 1909.
As a Quaker, Joseph's father, Walter, would not have approved of war. Walter Stickney died in 1911;
his widow, Sophia lived until 1939 when she died at the age of 85.
Joseph Stickney was commissioned a Second Lieutenant on June 9th 1915 with the 4th Battalion the East Yorkshire Regiment, which was the local Territorial Army battalion in Hull. The original T.A. 4th Battalion had sailed for France in April 1915, so it would appear that Joseph served with the 2nd/4th Battalion EYR which had been formed to replace the original 4th Battalion. The 2nd/4th Battalion saw home service at Darlington and Cramlington, near Newcastle, posting reserves to the original 4th Battalion when required. On January 27th 1916 he was promoted to Lieutenant while with the EYR.
Joseph appears to have served in the UK until 22nd September 1916, the date recorded on his medal index card as his entry into France. The card showed he also served with the York and Lancaster Regiment. The war diary of the 4th (Hallamshire) Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment recorded that 10 officers joined the Battalion at Souastre on 25th September 1916, including Captain Stickney.
His war service in France and Flanders appears to have been with the 4th Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment. In April 1917 he was appointed to the rank of acting Major "while at HQ" which appeared to last until 4 December 1917. He retained the rank of acting major while later serving as second-in-command of the battalion, between March 1918 and March 1919. On May 21st 1917 he was clearly with the 4th Hallamshires as he was recorded in the war diary as remaining in the trenches to assist with the training of the Portugese Infantry on May 21st 1917. On 23rd July 1917 while the battalion was at Lomardzyde, Major Stickney was wounded by mustard gas (war diary). Lombardzyde was at Nieuport on the coast and was directly (and notoriously) opposite the German lines: "Any port but Nieuport" was a common grumble.
Joseph was Mentioned in Despatches in the London Gazette of 18 December 1917 under the heading: "The following is a Continuation of Sir Douglas Haig's Despatch of the 7th November, submitting names deserving special mention..."
His Military Cross was announced on 5th November 1918 in a Supplement to the Gazette dated November 7th. Captain (acting Major) JED Stickney: "For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He repelled a heavy enemy counter-attack, and continually visited the posts under his command, in spite of the intense enemy bombardment which followed. His fine example of coolness and courage greatly encouraged his men, and he maintained his line unbroken though troops on his flank gave way."

The Record of Service of Solicitors and Articled Clerks with His Majesty's Forces, 1914-1919, states he was twice Mentioned in Despatches and was awarded the DSO and MC and Bar. I have not successfully found reference to the other awards in the London Gazette. The DSO was sometimes awarded in New Year or Birthday Honours lists and was generally awarded to officers of the rank of Major whilst in command under fire.

On October 7th 1920, Joseph relinquished his commission with the rank of Captain. He returned to work as a solicitor in Hull with offices at Crown Chambers, Land of Green Ginger, and a residence at Westgarth, Davenport Avenue, Hessle. He was appointed the official receiver for Kingston upon Hull in 1923 and was still in that office when he died, aged 63, on January 23rd 1945 at Westgarth. His funeral was held at Hessle Parish Church on January 26th 1945; "no flowers, no mourning". He left a widow, Mabelle.

The war diary of the 4th Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment (The Hallamshires) is available to download from the National Archives Documents Online website (Cost GBP 3-50). It is in catalogue reference WO 95/2805 "49 DIVISION, 148 INFANTRY BRIGADE: 1/4 Battalion York and Lancaster Regiment 1915 Apr. - 1919 Feb."

In 1929, Joseph defended more than a hundred men of the Hull tramways who were being threatened with dismissal by the City Council because they had worked during the General Strike. See:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19291216&id=x6RAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=o6UMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3935,2253012

His service record is held by the National Archives at Kew in catalogue reference WO 374/65587
STICKNEY, Capt J E D (former reference 3185). It can be ordered. See:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=949499&CATLN=6&Highlight=%2CSTICKNEY&accessmethod=0

Kind regards
Alan

Hi Alan, Thank you so much for the information on O.C. Williams.

My next one, if you would be so kind, is Raymond Oliver JOURDAIN. Again he served in WW1. In think he was born 1871.

Thank you again for your time.

Regards

Ray

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 27th September 2011 at 9:34 PM
Dear Ray,
Raymond Oliver Jourdain was born at Piccadilly, Manchester on 22nd October 1870, the son of The Rev Francis Jourdain, a vicar at Ashbourne in Derbyshire. Raymond attended Derby School and entered Magdalene College, Cambridge in 1889 gaining a BA in 1892. He became a private tutor, running a small school at Symondsbury near Bridport, Dorset in 1911.
He was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant into the 23rd Battalion Royal Fusiliers (Sportsmen's) (City of London Regiment) on 18th January 1915. The battalion trained at Hornchurch; Clipstone Camp, Mansfield and Kandahar Barracks, Tidworth, before sailing for France in November 1915. Raymond landed at Boulogne on November 16th 1915. The Battalion served with the 99th Infantry Brigade in the 2nd Division from 25th November 1915 and moved to Annequin and Busnettes in the winter of 1915-16.
Raymond was wounded, as the war diary of the Battalion states Lieut R O Jourdain rejoined from hospital on 26th September 1916. He may have been wounded at Delville Wood on 27th July 1916 as the diary noted five officers killed and seven wounded that day.

The war diary of the 23rd Battalion is available to download from the National Archives Documents Online website (GBP 3-50). It is among others in Catalogue reference WO95/1372.

The London Gazette recorded he was attached to the War Office in December 1917. He was later promoted to Captain and then to brevet Major on 9th April 1919 (London Gazette 30 April 1919). He was mentioned in the Secretary of State for War's List of "valuable services" and was awarded the "cavalier" Order of the Crown by Italy (London Gazette 28 March 1919). He qualified for the 1914-15 Star, the Victory Medal and the British War Medal.
His service record is held at the National Archives at Kew. It is indexed on page 212 of the officers' index I to K in catalogue reference WO 338/I-K. His long number reference was 126276 which identifies his service file.
He appears to have written: "Notes on the Roman Provinces: a short hand-book for candidates for the Classical Tripos" in 1898. As a retired major he travelled alone to Egypt in November 1934 at the age of 64 and returned to the UK in February 1935 from Marseilles. He had addresses variously at Longford Bow, Devon; Charlynch, Bridgewater; and Zeals in Wiltshire. He died, aged 71, on 31st July 1942 at Newquay in Cornwall.
Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Ray
Date: Wednesday 28th September 2011 at 5:49 AM
Hi Alan, UNBELIEVABLE and thank you. I think the RBL is going to make a fortune from. Donation now on its way.

Thank you again. I'm now digging out some information on the next man.

Regards

Ray

I'm after some help please with Orlando Cyprian Williams born 1883. He was in WW1 and was awarded the Military Cross. In 1941 he was awarded the Order of The Bath Civil. I think he was Clerk of the House of Commons. I think he also wrote some books.

Many Thanks

Ray

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 27th September 2011 at 4:25 PM
Dear Ray,
Orlando Cyprian Williams CB MC DCL FRSL was born 4th May 1883. He was known as Orlo Williams. After Eton and Oxford he became Clerk of the House of Commons in 1907. He married Alice Isabella Pollock, daughter of Sir Frederick Pollock in 1912.
During the First World War he served as a staff officer with the headquarters of the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force where he was chief cipher officer to Sir Ian Hamilton at Gallipoli. He later served in Egypt and Palestine. He was Mentioned in Despatches on four occasions and was awarded the Military Cross (London Gazette 2 June 1916) which was presented to him by the King at Buckingham Palace on December 9th 1916 (The Times Dec 11 1916). He later served in the technical section of the War Office and left the army with the rank of Major. He became the clerk of committees of the House of Commons and during the Second World War served as a Lieutenant in the Palace of Westminster company of the Home Guard. He was appointed a Companion of the Order of Bath in 1941 and retired in 1948.

He was a writer and translator as well as a contributor of reviews to the Times Literary Supplement. Who's Who recorded his works as: Life and Letters of John Rickman, 1912; Vie de Bohème, 1913; The Good Englishwoman, 1920; Contemporary Criticism, 1924; The Essay, 1914; Giosuè Carducci, 1914; Three Naughty Children, 1922; Some Great English Novels, 1926; Charles Lamb, 1934; The Historical Development of Private Bill Procedure and Standing Orders in the House of Commons, 1948; The Minute Book of James Courthope (Camden Miscellany vol. XX), 1953; The Topography of the Old House of Commons (Min. of Works), 1953; The Clerical Organisation of the House of Commons, 1661–1850, 1954; and translations of several Italian novels and other works.

He was awarded an honorary doctorate (DCL) and was appointed a Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature. He died in March 1967.

He was awarded the Silver Medal for Military Valour by the Italians in August 1917 (London Gazette 31 August 1917) and the French Croix de Chevalier (Knight of the National Order of the Legion of Honour) in 1919 (London Gazette 11 Mar 1919).

His service record is held at the National Archives (it appears to be ref. No. 45977 but the index is very faded). The Australian military historian, Rhys Crawley, states the diary and Papers of Dr. O.C. Williams are held at the Imperial War Museum. See:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/comments/?set=a.10150168108341686.295416.180766336685

Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Ray
Date: Tuesday 27th September 2011 at 4:44 PM
Alan, WOW and FANTASTIC spring to mind. Do you have the link to his service record please?

Donation now made. I will be back in touch soon as I like to research these brave men.

Thank you

Ray

Thank you for your kind gift

Dear Mr Thomson

Thank you very much for your kind donation of £20to The Royal British Legion. We really value your support. Your donation will be debited from your card within 2 working days.

Over 10 million people are eligible for our support and 1,000 people call on us for help every day. Your gift will help us continue to provide serving and ex-Service men and women in need of practical, financial and emotional support; as well as campaign for their best interests.

Yours sincerely

Russell Thompson OBE
Director of National Events and Fundraising
The Royal British Legion

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 27th September 2011 at 5:55 PM
Dear Ray,

His service record is not accessible online as it is an officer's record held at the National Archives at Kew. I have searched the index for the "long number" reference and it appears to be 45977. You would need to visit the archives to request the document. See:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/officerbritisharmyafter1913.htm?WT.lp=rg-3105

Thank you for your donation to the Royal British Legion.

Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Ray
Date: Tuesday 27th September 2011 at 6:15 PM
Thank you again Alan.

OUTSTANDING service.

Regards

Ray

Hi hope someone can help me with another ancester, Joseph Newell born Aston B'ham 1888 who was in RAMC but I dont have his Regiment only a No. 40209 Private.
Thanks

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 26th September 2011 at 7:23 PM
Dear Valbetty,
No individual service record appears to have survived for Joseph Newell. He served in the Royal Army Medical Corps and qualified for the 1914-15 Star; the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. His qualification for the 1914-15 Star might include the unit of the RAMC in which he was serving when he went abroad in May 1915. The qualification is on medal roll number RAMC/11A page 928. This roll is held at the National Archives at Kew in Catalogue reference WO 329/2908 "Royal Army Medical Corps other ranks: medal rolls. RAMC/9A-12A. Pages 691A-1034A. 1914-15 Star"
Each solider has a one-line entry on the roll and the entry may, or may not, provide additional details.
You can visit the archives in person, or pay for someone to look up the entry. See:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/paid_research.htm

Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Valbetty
Date: Wednesday 28th September 2011 at 5:02 PM
Thank you once again. You are a gem with all the information
Regards

Alan,

I wonder if I might bother you one more time. My ancestor on my Grandmother's side this time. His name was Frank Odell, born 1885 Sandy, Bedfordshire.

There is a family rumour that he was a deserter in the army in WW1 but we can find no records of him anywhere.

He died in 1966 refusing to discuss his time during the war and it was only after his death that we found he had a wife (who was not my Grandmother) who died in 1958. Do you have any tips on how I might go about finding out more about him? Again, I've had no luck on Ancestry and I'm not sure where to look next. I thought as you are so knowledgeable about WW1 you may have some ideas that I've not thought of?

Following conscription in 1916, I believe he would have been required to sign up if he had not done so before?

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 26th September 2011 at 7:41 PM
Dear Claire,
There is insufficient evidence to search for Frank Odell as there is no obvious record of a birth in 1885 or a death in 1966. Frank may have been a nickname for Francis, but there still isn't an obvious record for him. No military record appears to have survived.
He would have been conscripted after 1916 if he hadn't already joined up.
The best way ahead is to identify his full name at birth and his date of birth which would enable the marriage records to be searched. As most military records were destroyed in the bombing of London in 1940, it may not be possible to trace those.

There was a Frank Walter Odell whose birth was registered in 1885, who seems the most likely. But I can find no other record for him.

Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Claire
Date: Monday 26th September 2011 at 7:52 PM
Yes Alan, thank you.

It is Frank Walter Odell and I do have his birth certificate and marriage certificate but I cannot find him during WW1. He also spent his life in Acton, Middlesex but I guess his service records are lost..

I have found his brother's records (Frederick Odell) but seem unable to trace my direct ancestor.

Thanks again.

Claire

Hello,

I am trying to find out more information about my Great Grandfather, Frank Dean. All I have is medical history records that state date of enlistment 29 January 1916, Army Service Corps (M.T), Regimental number: M2/153212. We believe he died sometime during the war, possibly after contracting malaria but I cannot find his service records on ancestry. I have his medal card, which states his regimental number and rank (cpl). Also, under roll it states RASC/101B105. Page 10646. What does this mean?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 26th September 2011 at 1:45 PM
Dear Claire,
The soldier you describe as Frank Dean, M2/153212 Army Service Corps who enlisted on 29th January 1916 actually survived the First World War. He served in France and Flanders from 20th June 1916 until March 1919 when he was part of the Army of Occupation at Euskirchen, Germany. He was demobilised on 20th April 1919 and transferred to the Class Z Reserve, for soldiers who were liable to be called up again if the Armistice did not hold. He served as a motor driver with various Mechanical Transport companies of the ASC. His service (pension) record has survived and is available on the ancestry website under British army pension records. His medal index card showed he qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. The qualification for the medals was contained on the ASC medal roll numbered RASC/101B105 Page 10646 which is the number recorded on the medal index card.

Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Claire
Date: Monday 26th September 2011 at 4:06 PM
Dear Alan,

Thank you so much for such a quick response! Yes, I have now found his records on Ancestry and so the question for our family to now figure out is when did he actually die? I shall have fun trying to unravel this...

Thanks again and a donation to The British Legion is on it's way...

Claire

Hi
I desperately after any information with regard to my Great Granfather, Is name was Private J Meldrum MISR/271, DEPOT Army Service Corps. he died on the 28th September 1914 and is buried at Aldershot War Cemetery. Sadly this is all i know he came from Falkirk. What i would like to know is how he died and what does MISR mean, and of course what unit he was serving with.
Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated.

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 25th September 2011 at 12:17 AM
Dear Mark,
The reference you have given refers to John Meldrum, born about 1881. He was a grate-fitter married to Maggie Martin on 25th June 1902 at Camelon, Falkirk. They had five children: John; Robert Martin; Mary Gordon; Simon (?); and Annie. When he enlisted in the First World War, John was shown as formerly serving with the 3 A&S Hr.

As an 18 year old, John Meldrum had enlisted in the Militia of the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders (Princess Louise's) - 91st & 93rd Foot, in 1900. They were in the part-time, home defence force which in 1908 became part of the Territorial Army. He served for the standard six years and left in 1906. The Militia was part of any regiment's 3rd Battalion – hence 3 A&S Hr.

John Meldrum, then aged 33, enlisted at Stirling on 1st September 1914, and joined the Army Service Corps at Aldershot on 3rd September 1914, serving with No. 1 Depot Company ASC as a driver in the mechanical transport section.

His regimental number was actually M.1/SR/271. The M stood for mechanical section (as opposed to horses). SR stood for Special Reserve. 271 was his number. The figure 1 could have referred to his unit being part of Kitchener's First New Army. It could also have referred to his initial length of service which was shown as "one year Special Reserve" on his attestation paper.

On enlistment, the medical officer described him as being "old Special Reserve" – and "chest measurement will improve". On 21st September 1914 John was admitted to Cambridge Hospital, Aldershot, where he died on 18th September 1914 – VDH – valvular heart disease.

His widow later received a pension.

Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Mark
Date: Sunday 25th September 2011 at 11:15 AM
Thank you very much, this is the most information we have ever been able to get from anywhere including family, as most have passed on. Just one thing on his gravestone at Aldershot it said that he died on the 28th September, is this correct or was it a typo on your part.
Again thank you very much.
I am a serving Warrant Officer in the Royal Engineers, and i will be making a donation at the next British legion meet.

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 25th September 2011 at 12:23 PM
Dear Mark,
Apologies: a typo on my part. He was admitted on the 21st and died on 28th September 1914 at Cambridge Hospital.

Kind regards,
Alan

Dear Alan

I am seeking information about my grand uncle Private Alexander (Alec) Walker Kininmonth,

He was born in Edinburgh 1897 and he belonged to the Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment) Queens Edinburgh rifles, 4th battalion. Service Number 200478

He died 12th November 1917 aged 19 years. If he "died of his wounds" on that particular day is it possible to find out where he may have died?

His name is listed on the Jerusalem War Memorial - I presume there is no grave? i'd be very grateful for any help / advice as I am visiting Jerusalem in March

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 23rd September 2011 at 11:02 PM
Dear Pamela,
Alexander Walker Kininmonth was born at 4 a.m. on November 13th 1897 at 152, Easter Road, Edinburgh (GRO Scotland, Statutory Births 1897, 685/03 1395).
No individual service record has survived for Alexander Kininmonth. An Army Medal Rolls Index card recorded he served with the 4th Battalion The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment) originally with the regimental number 2110 and then with the number 200478. It showed he was "KIA": Killed in action. "Soldier Died in the Great War" (HMSO 1921) also recorded he was killed in action.
There were three battalions of the Royal Scots with the designation 4th. The original battalion was the regiment's Territorial battalion, the 4th Royal Scots (Queen's Edinburgh Rifles), with a drill hall at Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, which was formed, for home defence, in 1908. After the war started and the Territorials began to serve abroad, a second, sister battalion was raised to replace the first at home and to provide reinforcements for the original battalion when abroad. This became known as the 2nd/4th Battalion. Eventually there was a 3rd/4th Battalion. The original battalion took the fractional number 1st/4th Battalion. All Territorial Army soldiers' numbers were re-organised in March 1917, which is why Alexander's number changed from 2110 to 200478.

Alexander's medal card recorded he qualified for the 1914-15 Star by entering a theatre of war (Gallipoli) on 8th June 1915. The 2nd/4th Battalion did not serve in a theatre of war. The 3rd/4th Battalion was not raised until July 1915. In June 1915, when Alexander was at sea, the original 4th battalion did not require reinforcements as it would not yet have suffered casualties. Alexander died in Palestine in 1917. Only the 1st/4th Battalion served overseas in June 1915 and went on to serve in Palestine in 1917. Therefore, it can be demonstrated that Alexander served in the 1st/4th Battalion The Royal Scots throughout his service. The part-time, volunteer, Territorial Army recruited men from the age of 17 and a half in peacetime. Alexander would have been 17 in November 1914, so it appears he enlisted under age as the wartime enlistment age was 18.

The Battalion was "embodied" for permanent (rather than part-time) wartime service on August 4th 1914 and went to its wartime stations as part of the coastal defences of Scotland, within the Lothian Brigade. In April 1915 the 1st/4th Battalion became part of the Lowland Division. Before going abroad the "named" divisions were numbered, for simplicity, and the 4th Battalion became part of the 156th Infantry Brigade of the 52nd (Lowland) Division. On 24th May 1915 they embarked at Liverpool and sailed for Egypt, on their way to the island of Lemnos which was the staging post for the Gallipoli Peninsula. The Division arrived at Alexandria on 4th June and would then have sailed for Lemnos. Alexander's "date of entry" of June 8th may have been his arrival or departure from Alexandria, or his arrival at Lemnos, where most troops disembarked at a place called Mudros, a military harbour.

On 14th June 1915, the Battalion landed at Gallipoli. The Battalion lost 366 men killed at Gallipoli in addition to those who fell sick from the conditions. In July 1915 the 4th Battalion merged with the 7th Battalion Royal Scots to form a composite battalion. They left Gallipoli at the end of the evacuation on the night of 7th January 1916, having fought at Gully Ravine (28-29 June); Achi Baba Nullah (12-13 July); Krithia Nullahs (29 December) and the final evacuation of Helles (7-8 January 1916).

After their return to Egypt, via Mudros, the Battalion resumed its own identity (as the 4th Battalion) on 20th January 1916. The Battalion moved to the area of El Kantara and on 2nd March 1916 took over a section of the Suez Canal defences. The canal was a vital link to India and Australia and was threatened from the East by the Turks, but after their first assault across the desert in 1915, the defence became a matter of routine. The British and Commonwealth forces then started to build a railway into the desert from Kantara to Romani in anticipation of their advance into Palestine. The 52nd Division was moved to defend the area and the Turks and Germans launched attacks in 1916 at Dueidar (22 April 1916) and the The Battle of Romani (4-5 August 1916). Palestine, which was part of the Turkish Empire, was entered by the British in December 1916 at the beginning of a year's advance on Jerusalem. The major engagements fought by the 52nd Division in Palestine in 1917 were: The First Battle of Gaza (26-27 March) in which the Division was held in reserve; The Second Battle of Gaza (17-19 April); The Third Battle of Gaza (1-7 November); Wadi el Hesi (8 November). On 12th November 1916 the 156th Brigade, including the 4th Royal Scots, fought at Burqa.
This was a short battle fought on one day with the aim of capturing some high ground to allow for artillery observation to enable the crossing of the watercourse, the Nahr Suqreir. The Royal Scots were tasked with capturing a hill called Brown Hill and Burqa. The battalion was under strength, but managed to reach the summit of Brown Hill. However, they were forced to fight again after a counter-attack by the Turks. A general from an adjacent Division saw their difficulties and sent a battalion of Gurkhas to their assistance. Together they rallied and fought the Turks off the hill.

Alexander died on 12 November 1917 along with 42 other men of his battalion.
He qualified for the 1914-15 Star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
He is commemorated on the Jerusalem Memorial to the 3,300 soldiers who have no known grave in Egypt or Palestine. There are 100 unmarked graves at Jerusalem War Cemetery. No "known grave" means just that. The CWGC went to great lengths to identify battlefield graves and to move them to CWGC cemeteries after the war. However, in the intervening years, many battlefield graves had lost their crosses or markers and became undistinguishable. The CWGC has not identified a grave for Alexander. He may have been buried by his comrades and the grave site lost, or he could be among the unidentified graves. He is therefore commemorated on the memorial.

He was killed, aged 19, on November 12th 1917, a few hours before his 20th birthday on November 13th.

The CWGC says that work will start in April 2012 to replace all the panels on the Jerusalem Memorial and to clean the entire structure which has been affected by the weather and climatic conditions. The work is expected to take five months. Before travelling to see the memorial you might like to check with the CWGC on 01628 507200.

Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Pamela
Date: Saturday 24th September 2011 at 4:40 PM
Dear Alan

I cannot thank you enough for your very detailed reply - not to mention your very prompt response to my request.

I am so grateful for your help - it's amazing what you have found out and I'm sure that I could never have found out so much information
Thank you very much
Pam

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Reply from: Margaret
Date: Saturday 2nd March 2013 at 2:21 PM
I KNOW IT MIGHT BE TOO LATE BUT I HAVE JUST NOTICED A WW1 DEATH PLAQUE FOR SALE ON EBAY TO THE GENTLEMAN YOU MENTION.

Hello Alan,
I have come across these details for Harry Colquhoun who was born in Hull in 1895, and wondered if you could expand on them for me please. His parents were Jesse and Mary Margaret

Medal card of Colquhoun, Harry
Corps: East Yorkshire Regiment
Regiment No: 10/648
Rank: Colour Serjeant...

Many, many thanks again.

Becca

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 22nd September 2011 at 10:46 PM
Dear Becca,
Unfortunately there is nothing I can add. His number showed he enlisted in the 10th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment (1st Hull) and he was later discharged with a Silver War Badge for wounds or sickness. The Battalion served in 92nd Infantry Brigade in the 31st Division. See:
http://www.1914-1918.net/31div.htm

Kind regards
Alan

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Reply from: Becca
Date: Friday 23rd September 2011 at 7:34 PM
Once again, my thanks Alan. I shall follow your information and see what I can find.

KLind regards

Becca

I have found the following information about a potential relative: full name is Owen Howard Williams

b. 1Q1879 Birmingham
At home in Birmingham in the 1881 census
Working as a page boy to a GP in Leicester in the 1891 census
Married Nellie (prob Ellen) Harris in 1Q1904

I also have a 1911 census entry which might be the same person
WILLIAMS, Owen Married 32yrs b.1879 Birmingham Warwick Farrier Sgt 85th Battery RFA

And I have found this:
O. Williams
Gunner 5 Battery Royal Field Artillery
Soldier number 29912

Any help with additional military records which can help me confirm if this is all the same man would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom Metcalfe

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 22nd September 2011 at 8:44 PM
Dear Tom,
The entries you have appear to relate to the same man apart from your "probable" marriage in 1904. However, you should refer to original birth and marriage certificates to provide primary evidence. I note you have no entry for him in the 1901 Census taken during the Second Anglo-Boer War. The reference you have to an O. Williams 5th Battery RFA strikes me as being a Boer War record.

In 1911, the 85th Battery of the Royal Field Artillery served in the 11th Brigade RFA. So, the 1911 Census entry recorded a Farrier Sergeant serving in 11th Brigade at St Thomas Mount. This was St Thomas Mount, Tamil Nadu, India.

Farrier Sergeant Owen Williams, No. 29912, had enlisted in the Royal Field Artillery at Glasgow in September 1898, aged 19; born Birmingham; religion: Church of England. Owen stated his father was William and he had an elder brother called William, both living at the time in Glasgow. He served in various batteries and was on active service in South Africa with the 5th Battery RFA from 29th January 1900 to 10 January 1903. He served in 21st Battery RFA from 1st August 1907 in Ireland.

On 14th October 1907 he became a Roman Catholic and on 5th November 1907 he married Nellie Kearney at Cork, Ireland, and their first child, Alice Mary, was born 29 September 1908 at the Barracks, Gt Brook Street, Aston. Their second child was Bernard born at The Old Barracks, Fermoy, Ireland on 27 October 1910. A daughter born at Jubbulpore, India in 1912 died in 1916. Their fourth child was named Owen Howard (or William Owen) ; born 4th December 1914 at Jubbulpore, India.

On 6 December 1910, Owen Williams was posted to the 85th Battery RFA. He served with them in India from then until 12 October 1914 when the 85th Battery was moved from India to serve on the Western Front in France. He remained in France throughout the First World War.
A fifth child, Patrick John, was born in 1920.
In 1921 the family address appeared to be 25 St John Street, Leicester.

His military record is miss-indexed on the ancestry.co.uk website with the year of birth as 1889 (because 1898 looked like 1908). North Yorkshire libraries provide free access to the ancestry website.

I hope that helps,
Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Tom Metcalfe
Date: Monday 26th September 2011 at 10:04 AM
Once again, many thanks Alan for your comprehensive reply. I shall start tidying up some loose ends now that I have this additional information.

Regards,

Tom

Hello

I wonder if anyone can help with a logistical query. My grandfather was in the ASC in the First World War and was also an Officer's Batman for the son of his peacetime employer. My grandfather's service record was destroyed in 1940 and I have managed to trace some of their whereabouts from the Officer's Service Record which still exists. My grandfather's Officer and therefore my grandfather are listed as being in "X" Corps Siege Park from about the end of 1917 until mid 1918 when they were posted to Cork briefly before returning to the Western Front in October 1918 to another Unit and going to Germany until late 1919. My query is-which Army(ies) were "X" Corps attached to for the first half of 1918 and where were their HQ's?. I have a feeling that they were attached to 5th Army for most of that time and may have been in Reserve or Rest and Re-Fit. I can't seem to find them on any Orders of Battle for that time but am having difficulty as the 1918 Orders are not on-line and I am unable to visit Kew. Can anyone help? Thanks.

Regards

Ian Hannah

Hello can you help shed some light on my paternal grandfather. He we in the 226th Field Co R.E.N.E.F. Regiment No. 100111 his name was Frederick James Billington. Looks like he joined up in 1915 but his age is given as being 19 years born 1886 which is not right. He was born in 1899, they state his date of birth as 1899 on one bit of his records. Am a bit confused.
Thank you in advance

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 21st September 2011 at 8:28 PM
Dear Cheyrules,
The age on enlistment was always recorded as the "stated" age or the "apparent" age. Young men keen to join up often lied about their ages, and the Army generally turned a blind eye, providing the young man passed his medical.
Frederick James Billington, the son of James Herbert Billington and Minnie Ruth (Jeffries) was born 27th March 1899. His mother died in 1907 and in 1910 his father married Florence Morton. When he enlisted he was 16 years and two months old. On May 28th 1915 he stated his age was 19 and two months. He gave his mother Florence as next of kin. He probably just wanted to make sure he wasn't turned down.
When he left the army in 1919 he could afford to tell the truth and his discharge papers stated his year of birth was 1899.
He enlisted in 226th Field Company Royal Engineers but was transferred to HQ 33 Division Royal Engineers on September 9th 1915 and went to France on 16th November 1915.

Kind regards
Alan

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Reply from: Cheyrules
Date: Wednesday 21st September 2011 at 9:03 PM
Thanks very much for your reply. I always had it in my head that my grandfather lied about his age to join up, but had attributed it to my maternal grandfather, and was beginning to think it was something I had just dreamt up. Do you know where his regiment was stationed in Sept-Oct 1916. As I saw from his records he was in trouble for I think being absent (writing to faint to read properly) in Sept 1916 and his older brother Herbert Billington was injured around that time he was in Middx Reg. fighting on the Somme.

Thanks again

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 21st September 2011 at 9:14 PM
Dear Cheyrules,

His record does not specify where he served in France. As he served with HQ Royal Engineers 33 Division from 9th September 1915, he could have been at headquarters or anywhere within the Divisional area. He may well have been with the HQ Signals Company. For the 33rd Division engagements, see:
http://www.1914-1918.net/33div.htm

Kind regards
Alan

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Reply from: Cheyrules
Date: Wednesday 21st September 2011 at 9:35 PM
Thanks again for all your help, it is much appreciated

I am trying to find out why my great uncle, Evan Llewellyn Parry No.6408 3rd Batt. Royal Warwickshire Regiment, 22/10/1897 is listed Prisoner 1899 on his records. Can anyone help please.
He later joined the Royal Marine Artillery.

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Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 21st September 2011 at 7:25 PM
Dear Valbetty,
Evan Llewellyn Parry enlisted in the Militia in 1897. The Militia was part-time service rather like the present day Territorial Army. Men attended an annual camp when it was convened and Evan's record showed he was drilled on enlistment (DoE) for 49 days, in 1897. He was "present" for the annual camp in 1898 and he was absent from the camp held in 1899, [reason:] "prison".
On 29th June 1899 he joined the Royal Marines and became a gunner in the RM Artillery. He was placed on the Royal Fleet Reserve in June 1911 having served 12 years and was recalled to the colours on mobilization for war on 2nd August 1914, just before war was declared on the 4th. He served with RMA headquarters at Dunkirk and Antwerp as a servant to Major General George Aston and then as orderly to General Sir A. Paris RMA. From 4 Dec 1917 until 29 Jan 1919 he served onboard HMS "Erin". Evan qualified for the 1914 Star, British War Medal; Victory Medal and went on to qualify for a Long Service and Good Conduct Medal in the Royal Fleet Reserve in 1922. His conduct was consistently "very good".

His "prison" would probably have been a civilian detention, preventing him from attending annual camp. You would need to search local newspapers for Birmingham of the time to see if they reported a trial. Newspapers are held at Birmingham Archives and Heritage at the city's central library. See:

http://80.249.57.37/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=Lib-Central-Archives-and-Heritage%2FPageLayout&cid=1223092750854&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FWrapper

Kind regards,
Alan

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Reply from: Valbetty
Date: Thursday 22nd September 2011 at 4:18 PM
Thank you so much for the information. I am so grateful because it would have been buggin me as no one left to supply info on 'prison'. My Mom is going to local RBL on Monday so I will give her a donation from me for them, if thats OK with you.
Thanks again.