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Alan Greveson's World War 1 Forum (Page 41)

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Posted by: Susan Newton {Email left}
Location: Gwehelog Monmouthshire
Date: Saturday 14th February 2015 at 2:46 PM
Dear Alan, I read your reply to Tess of Newton Abbott, 3rd January 2014, about Serbian medals with interest. My great grand father received a Serbian Household medal, silver, in 1921. He was Private John Waddington M2/130770 Royal Army Service Corp., 766 Motor Transport. In a letter about the awarding of the medal, in his army records, it says "I am to state that it has been decide owing to the special nature of this medal not to publish the award in the London Gazette." Why would this have been any more special than all the other awards and not published? Thank you. Susan
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 14th February 2015 at 8:12 PM

Dear Susan,
The reason might be because The Household Medal was an award of national gratitude, rather than a state honour or a military gallantry medal, so the War Office might have considered not that it was more special, but different.
The "London Gazette" published the notifications of official awards. A Royal warrant from the British monarch was required to permit the wearing of orders or medals that were conferred by foreign heads of state and the wearing of the Serbian Household Medal by British recipients was approved by King George V.
Perhaps the difference lay in the fact that the Serbian Royal Household Medal was not conferred by the state (the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes) but was conferred solely by the grace of the Monarch as a mark of gratitude. It was originally intended for long and faithful service to the Monarch. A gallantry medal would have required military witness statements, followed by recommendations and scrutiny, upwards through the chain of command before being approved for the conferring of an award with a citation describing an individual act.
King Peter I of Serbia transferred his royal prerogatives to his son Crown Prince Alexander on 24th June 1914. Serbia established a new country, the Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, after the war. King Peter died on 16th August 1921 and was succeeded by Alexander. The medal awarded to John Waddington had been acknowledged by the RASC in June 1921 when he was sent a diploma to accompany it, so the medal would have been awarded while King Peter I was still living.
I expect that the awarding of medals, as signs of national gratitude or for valuable service, which were granted after the war by a foreign head of state in peacetime might not have qualified, in the eyes of the War Office, for official publication in the "London Gazette". I have asked two local medal dealers about this but they both shrugged their shoulders. You could try e-mailing Spink of London:
https://www.spink.com/departments.aspx?id=1206
Or the "London Gazette":
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/contact-us
I might have to be corrected, but if you imagine an imperious army staff officer at the War Office looking down his nose and writing the paragraph: "I am to state that it has been decided owing to the special nature of this medal not to publish the awards in the London Gazette", you'll understand what he was expressing: it was an award of the Serbian monarch that did not qualify for national publication in Britain.
That should not detract from the fact that John Waddington served in Macedonia and Greece at the age of 46, working with ambulance units; GHQ and the British legation in Athens and was awarded a medal of gratitude by the King of Serbia.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Susan Newton
Date: Monday 16th February 2015 at 10:11 AM

Dear Alan,
Thank you very much for your reply.
In 1915, when John Waddington joined the army, he stated that his age was 44years and 2months.
I'm still trying to confirm his date of birth but I know he was over the 45 age limit . He may have been 47+. We hear lots about young men who joined up underage but not much about those who knock a couple of years off to join up!
Regards
Susan
Reply from: Jazz
Date: Sunday 23rd August 2015 at 12:52 PM

Hi Susan
I haven't posted on here before so hope I've got it right.
My grandfather, Jack Evans, was also named on the letter you refer to.
My mother has 2 citations in Serbian that we are trying to translate.
I would be interested in contacting you by email.

Posted by: Peter {Email left}
Location: Billingham
Date: Friday 13th February 2015 at 1:49 PM
Dear Alan Can you please tell me how to find this man The Reverend Canon Arthur Twidle LTh Royal Naval Chaplin he was in the Guisborough North Yorkshire area 1912 onwards he is on a plaque it just says also served in WW1 with no service number Thankyou Best regards Peter.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 13th February 2015 at 6:47 PM

Dear Peter,
There does not appear to be an individual service record for Arthur Edwin Twidle listed in the National Archives catalogue. See:
http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/commissionedofficerroyalnavy.htm
Ideally, it would be necessary to access a full run of The Navy List from 1914 - 1920 to establish his service. Some Navy Lists are available online, so part of his service can be identified.
Arthur Edwin Twidle was born on 6th September 1888 at Hull, the son of a commercial traveller, Frederick Twidle and his wife Elizabeth (neé Pattinson). In the 1911 Census Arthur Edwin Twidle was recorded as a 22 year old student at St Boniface Theological College, Warmister, alongside fellow student Harold Chester Master.
The 1913 edition of Kelly's Directory recorded Arthur Edwin Twidle as curate of St Nicholas Church, Guisborough. In September 1914 he gave his address as Clergy House, 30 Redcar Road, Guisborough.
On 9th December 1915 the Reverend Twidle L.Th. was appointed an acting Chaplain for temporary service in the Royal Navy (Navy List Jan. 1916). L.Th. stood for The Licentiate of Theology, a theological qualification for ordinands and laymen. "Acting" and "temporary" were the Royal Navy's way of identifying officers who were serving for the duration of wartime only.
On Saturday 18th July 1914, the "Daily Gazette for Middlesbrough" published: "An engagement is announced between The Rev. Arthur Edwin Twidle of Guisborough, Yorkshire, and Edith the younger daughter of Captain R. A. and Mrs Harbord of Newington Hall" (© Trinity Mirror Newspapers, courtesy of the British Library Board via the British Newspaper Archive). Newington Hall was a house on Anlaby Road, Hull. See:
http://www.carnegiehull.co.uk/the-anlaby-road/history/anlaby-road-history-20.html
Richard Arthur Harbord was a sea captain and master mariner.
Arthur Edwin Twidle and Edith Harbord married at Hull early in 1916. A son, Arthur Hugh Harbord Twidle was born on 3rd November 1917 at Hull. He became a schoolmaster.
In 1917, The Reverend Twidle was recorded in The Navy List as chaplain on HMS "Carysfort", a light cruiser completed in 1915 which served in the North Sea. Carysfort is in the County of Wicklow, Ireland. In April 1919, HMS "Carysfort" was assigned to the 2nd Light Cruiser Squadron and was despatched to take part in the British campaign against Bolshevik forces during the Russian Civil War. The chaplain appears to have taken part in the rescuing of some valuable icons from the Solovki Monastery. "The Revd Arthur Twidle had been a naval chaplain on a British ship docked in Archangel while the monastery was being taken over by the Bolsheviks and was handed these precious objects to save them from destruction." See:
http://archive.thetablet.co.uk/article/24th-july-2004/22/russias-bastions-of-faith
In the January 1919 Navy List he was recorded as chaplain on HMS "Glory IV" which was actually a Russian cruiser, "Askold", that had been seized by the British in 1918 and re-named. On returning to Britain she served as a depot ship at Greenock.
The Reverend Twidle qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
The 1921 Edinburgh telephone directory listed a Rev A E Twidle at The Rectory, South Queensferry. A search of Scottish births showed a Helen Maureeen Harbord Twidle was born at South Queensferry in 1920 and Nowell C. Harbord Twidle was born there in 1921.
From 1931 to about 1943, the Rev Twidle was vicar of Acomb, York. He also took on responsibility for the small congregation of St Sampson's Church in York from 1935. In 1945 he was rector at Thwing, Driffield; and from 6th April 1946 until the early 1960s he was rector at St Martin's Church, Burton Agnes.
In 1966 he was living at 4, The Firs, Combe Down, Bath. This was near Monkton Combe where Harold Chester Master had been to school. The Reverend Canon Arthur Edwin Twidle died at the Royal United Hospital, Bath, on March 30th 1966, aged 77. He was succeeded by his widow and children.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Peter
Date: Friday 13th February 2015 at 7:11 PM

Dear Alan I wish I had your skills in finding information once again I will be only to glad to give a donation to your Charity. Very Best Regards Peter.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 15th February 2015 at 12:43 AM

Dear Peter,
Thank you for your further donation. It is generous of you. I enjoy researching your queries and it is important that charities such as the Royal British Legion continue to receive support throughout the year to help Service men and women.
Kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Mark {Email left}
Location: Middlesbrough
Date: Wednesday 11th February 2015 at 8:27 PM
Hi,
I would like any information with regards to my great grandfather Private James McKenna 11002 of the Yorkshire Regiment and his movements during WW1. I know he was awarded the WW1 medal trio for actions on 14 July 1915 but this is all the info. I have. Any help would be very much appreciated.
Thank you
Mark
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 11th February 2015 at 10:25 PM

Dear Mark,
James McKenna was a 19 year old dock labourer who enlisted at Middlesbrough on 24th August 1914 and joined the Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards) as a private soldier, 11002, on 26th August 1914 at Richmond, North Yorkshire. He was 5ft 6ins tall, had a fair complexion, blue eyes and light brown hair. He was posted to the 6th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment which had been raised at Richmond on 25th August 1914 and then trained from 5th September 1915 in the grounds of Belton House, Grantham, until April 1915 when it moved to Witley Camp, Godalming. The 6th Battalion served with the 32nd Infantry Brigade in the 11th Division. They sailed from Liverpool on 3rd July 1915 for Gallipoli, via Alexandria and Mudros, landing at Suvla Bay on 6th August 1915. James McKenna was appointed as a lance-corporal on 12th August 1915. The Battalion left Gallipoli in December 1915 and moved to Imbros on 2nd February 1916 and then on to Alexandria in Egypt on 7th February 1916. They moved to France on 1st July 1916. See:
http://www.1914-1918.net/11div.htm
(After sailing from the UK, the Battalion entered Egypt on 14th July 1915, so the men qualified for the 1914-15 Star for serving overseas before December 31st 1915).
On 20th October 1916 James McKenna was tried by court-martial for drunkenness while on active service. He was sentenced to six months imprisonment with hard labour. The sentenced was commuted to 42 days' Field Punishment No.1 with his unit.
On 9th April 1917 he was re-appointed as a lance-corporal.
On 13th July 1917 he was posted to the 32nd Infantry Brigade's Trench Mortar Battery (32 TMB). These men operated trench mortars, although they were still part of their original regiment. He remained with 32 TMB until 16th May 1918 when he was posted to the 2nd Battalion Yorkshire Regiment where he remained until he was discharged on 23rd March 1919.
The war diary of the 6th Battalion Yorkshire Regiment has been partially digitised and is available (costing from £3.30) at:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=%226+Battalion+Yorkshire+regiment%22
The war diary of the 2nd Battalion is in two parts:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=%222+Battalion+Yorkshire+regiment%22
The war diary of the 32nd Trench Mortar Battery (TMB) for 1917-1918 does not appear in the National Archives index of 32 TMB diaries. However, from experience, the published indexed dates might not be correct. See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=%2232%22+AND+%22Trench+Mortar+Battery%22
James McKenna qualified for the 1914-15 Star, The British War Medal and The Victory Medal.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Mark
Date: Thursday 12th February 2015 at 8:14 AM

Fantastic. Thank You so much
Kind Regards
Mark

Posted by: Peter {Email left}
Location: Billingham
Date: Wednesday 11th February 2015 at 4:21 PM
Dear Alan trying to find Rev Harold Chester Master MA MC from Guisborough North Yorkshire Royal Army Flying Corps can you please put me on the right road Best Regards Peter.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 11th February 2015 at 9:31 PM

Dear Peter,
Harold Chester Master (also Chester-Master) was curate at Guisborough in the months before he left for war service late in 1915. He became a padre in the Army Chaplains Department serving with the army in France and then at a Royal Air Force training base in England. After the Armistice with Germany he appears to have become at pilot in the R.A.F. for a while.
His service record is not available other than by ordering it from The National Archives at Kew. See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1119658
However, there are other, secondary, sources that illustrate his career.
Harold was born on 11th September 1889 at Bootle, Lancashire. He was the son of The Reverend Francis C. Master, the Vicar of Christ Church, Bootle-cum-Linacre, and his wife Anna (1891 Census). Harold was educated at a private school run by Miss Anna Viner at 4, Wellington Terrace, Kewstoke Road, Weston-Super-Mare (1901 Census), and Monkton Coombe School, Bath. He studied at the St Boniface theology college at Warminster (1911 Census) before he went to Durham University where he studied Hebrew prior to gaining a B.A. in 1913 and later an M.A. at University College, Durham. He was ordained a Deacon in 1913 and a Priest in 1914 in the Diocese of Durham.
He was appointed a Temporary Chaplain 4th Class in the Army Chaplain's Department from 16th December 1915 ("London Gazette" 5 Jan 1916). As with all chaplains on appointment, he held the Army rank of Captain. An Army medal rolls index-card recorded he first served in France from 17th December 1915 at No. 1 Infantry Base Depot and then as a chaplain to 55th Infantry Brigade (no dates given). He was wounded in 1916 and according to the "West Harts Herald" of 20th February 1930 he "was badly knocked about during the war" (Bucks Herald - Friday 28 February 1930 © Johnston Press plc. courtesy of British Library Board via British Newspaper Archive). He was wounded five times when, alter, he was awarded a medal for bravery.
In England he served (as a padre?) with 50 T.D.S. which was No 50 Training Depot Station R.A.F. based on an aerodrome at St Anthony's, Eastbourne. His medal card indicated he was a Second-Lieutenant in the R.A.F.. (The Royal Flying Corps (RFC) was the air arm of the British Army during the First World War, before it merged with the Royal Naval Air Service on 1st April 1918 to form the Royal Air Force.)
The Royal Aero Club index cards showed the Club awarded him a pilot's certificate on 3rd February 1919 when he was "2-Lieut R.A.F. Military School, Eastbourne," flying an Avro Biplane. His wartime appointment was re-confirmed after the Armistice when he was appointed chaplain to the forces 4th Class on 1st April 1919 ("London Gazette" 9th May 1919). He appears to have briefly relinquished the purple of the Chaplain for the Second-Lieutenant of the R.A.F.
It was announced in 1919 that he was to be awarded the Military Cross ("London Gazette" February 6th 1920).
According to the "Ashburian" in 1929, he was awarded the Military Cross in 1919, for "bravery in helping a stretcher-party to get some wounded to safety. The doctor and the stretcher-bearers were killed, and Captain Chester-Master received five wounds".
After the war his records were administered by South Eastern Area, R.A.F., Covent Garden Hotel, Strand, W.C.2. In 1919, the Army Chaplain's Department was granted the title "Royal".
Harold moved to Pear Tree Cottages, Almondsbury, Bristol, (1921) and from 1920 to 1922 he was chaplain of Moorland House, School, Cheshire. He was a master at Ashbury from 1922 to 1925, and was then appointed headmaster of Bishops Stortford School in 1929. In 1935 he was appointed an assistant master at King's College, Taunton. In 1940, he was house master of "Willows" at Wellington School, Somerset. He returned to King's College in 1944 and went back to Wellington in 1946 as a chaplain and teacher of Latin and English. His spare time was occupied in maintaining the school grounds which suffered badly from wartime neglect.
The Reverend Harold Chester Master M.A. M.C. died of natural causes on July 3rd 1948 at the cottage hospital in Wellington after he had been taken ill with stomach pains. A funeral service was held at Wellington School. He was cremated at Bournemouth.
He remained a bachelor throughout his life.
An article that he had written about life at the Front appeared in the University Magazine. It can be seen on page five at:
https://www.dur.ac.uk/resources/palace.green/collections/dc/DUJ_v21_16_Dec-1916.pdf
The Chester-Master family held the Knole Park Estate, Almondsbury, and Cirencester Abbey Estate, Gloucestershire from about 1326. See the notes at:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/4ae18224-938c-4940-8f21-2eb966f9aabd
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Peter
Date: Thursday 12th February 2015 at 5:13 PM

Thank you Alan with yet another great response I shall be sending a Donation to your charity
Best Regards Peter.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 12th February 2015 at 6:36 PM

Dear Peter,
Thank you for making a donation. It all helps.
Alan
Posted by: Eleanor {Email left}
Location: Mansfield
Date: Tuesday 10th February 2015 at 12:30 PM
My maternal Grandfather Frank Morris, son of Pryce and Elizabeth Morris, was born in Aberdovey September 22nd 1880. His first employment was as a coachman groom in Wavertree Lancashire. he later became a fireman aboard the S S Dora which was part of the Aberdovey and Barmouth steamship company which travelled between Liverpool ,down the west coast of wales to Aberystywyth delivering goods. Later it did trips to and from Ireland transporting aggregate and livestock.during, what turned out to be its final voyage on May 1st 1917,a German submarine surfaced and ordered that a boat should be sent out to it to convey men to the Dora. Subsequently the crew of the Dora were ordered to take to their boats and row to shore (The Mull of Galloway) 11 miles away and the germans then set explosives to scuttle the Dora. I am trying to find the crew list of the Dora and have tried several sites and have found two men Lewis Jones and William Goodchild via { Aberdovey past and present on facebook) plus my Grandfather, but I believe there to be a low percentage of crew lists available. A few years ago ,Liverpool Maritime Museum sent me a booklet about the A&B steamship company and recently, on a submarine site, I have found all the details about the sub that sank the Dora.
Question 1 Is it possible to find out about the crew members?
Q 2 Did the crew receive compensation as one person has indicated that her ancestor did?
Q 3 Did they receive some sort of War medal?

Yours Sincerely, Eleanor.

P.S. I have the newspaper cutting about the event which I only came across after Franks death so knew nothing previously, plus I also found a photo of him and crew plus a couple of wives on board the Dora.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 10th February 2015 at 8:17 PM

Dear Eleanor,
Crew lists are difficult to establish as they are incomplete and scattered both in the UK and Canada. Very few would be found online. You would need to visit London or seek a quotation online for records held by The National Archives. As there were dozens of ships named "Dora" you need the vessel's official number which was 113396. The ship was small and would have had a small crew.
The National Archives has the ship's registry in its index:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C10236853
This includes duplicates of all forms entered, relating to the registry and ownership of ships removed from the British Register that was kept by the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen. "Dora" was removed in 1917. There are ship's agreements and crew lists for 1915-1916-1917 for vessel 113396 held at The National Archives. See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?discoveryCustomSearch=true&_q=113396&_cr1=BT+99&_hb=tna&hdnsorttype=Reference&image1.x=0&image1.y=0
Click on the titles of each year to expand the details and apply for a quote.
The National Maritime Museum at Greenwich is a possible repository of crew lists.
There is a crew list indexing project at
http://www.crewlist.org.uk/findingoncrewlists.html
Men of the mercantile marine were employed by the Board of Trade and any claim for compensation would have been a matter between the individual and the Board of Trade assessed on an individual basis. Records would be held by the family or within the vast number of Board of Trade records at The National Archives. See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C38
The British War Medal was only awarded to men of the mercantile marine who had undertaken approved service in hostile waters. Home waters between Belfast and Liverpool probably did not count despite the U-boat having hostile intent. Frank Morris is not listed on the list of recipients of medals awarded to the mercantile marine on The National Archives Website. For further advice see:
http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/merchantseaman1858-1917.htm
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Eleanor
Date: Tuesday 10th February 2015 at 10:06 PM

Thank you so much, as usual, for your helpful information. I,ll endeavour to follow it up.
E P Cole.
Posted by: Frank Rogers {Email left}
Location: Haslingden Lancashire
Date: Monday 9th February 2015 at 2:04 PM
I am trying to find information relating to the WW1 service of one of my wife's relatives - Private James Atherton (23143) of the 1st Battalion East Lancashire Regiment.

Also, within a collection of old coins, I came across a 1855 dated coin, one side of which had been completely smoothed, and into it had been carefully scratched " R N SHINGLES 34004 X LAN FUS". I take this to mean 10th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers. In our local telephone book there is only one Shingles listed. If I can find out more about this individual then, if there is a family connection, I intend to pass this coin on.

Regards,

Frank Rogers
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 9th February 2015 at 7:19 PM

Dear Frank,
No individual service record has survived for James Atherton so it is not possible to state his military service. An Army medal rolls index-card recorded he qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service overseas before December 31st 1915, he did not go overseas until some date after January 1st 1916. The card showed he first served with the 10th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment. However, the actual medal roll recorded he served in the 10th; 7th; 11th; 2nd and 1st Battalions of the East Lancashire Regiment.
The 10th Battalion was a training battalion based at Wareham and did not leave the U.K.. The 7th Battalion had gone to France on 18th July 1915, so James Atherton would have been part of a draft of reinforcements to the 7th Battalion sometime after January 1st 1916.The 7th Battalion was disbanded during the Army reforms of February 1918 and certainly some men were posted to the 11th Battalion on February 22nd 1918.
Private James Atherton 23143 East Lancashire Regiment was recorded as John (sic) Atherton, 23143, East Lancashire Regiment in the Army Register of Soldiers' Effects which stated he was "presumed dead on or since April 11th 1918". The CWGC Debt of Honour stated he died while serving with the 1st Battalion East Lancashire Regiment "formerly of the 2nd Battalion". He has no marked grave and is commemorated on The Ploegsteert Memorial.
The 7th Battalion served in the 56th Infantry Brigade in the 19th Division. See:
http://www.1914-1918.net/19div.htm
The 1st Battalion served in the 103rd Infantry Brigade in the 34th Division in the period from February to May 1918, and was fighting in The Battle of Estaires from 9th to 11th April 1918.
From March 21st 1918 the Allies were fighting a retreat during the German advance known as "Operation Michael" (Kaiserschlacht or Kaiser's Battle) on the Somme and many British units were in disarray following the Battle of St Quentin. It is possible that James served with the 11th Battalion and the 2nd Battalion during this period of confusion as the 11th, 2nd and 1st Battalions all fought at St Quentin and in the subsequent fighting during "Operation Michael" which ended on April 5th 1918.
No individual service record has survived to show dates of postings between battalions, but it would appear that James Atherton trained with the 10th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment in the U.K. before being posted to the 7th Battalion in France where he might have remained until February 1918 when the 7th Battalion was disbanded and men were posted to the 11th Battalion. In the muddled fighting of March 1918 on the Somme he appears to have served with the 2nd Battalion briefly before being killed while in the 1st Battalion at Estaires during the second phase of the Kaiserschlacht. James was aged 21 when he was killed, the son of George and Jane Atherton of Burnley.

R.N. Shingles was Robert Norman Shingles, born in 1888 at Waterfoot, Lancashire. He joined the Lancashire Fusiliers at Rawtenstall and was allotted a regimental number, 34004, by the 3rd Battalion which trained recruits at Hull and Withernsea on the Yorkshire coast from August 1914 onwards. At some stage after January 1st 1916 he was posted as part of a draft of reinforcements to the 10th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers which was with the 17th Division in France. He was later posted to the 1st Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers in which he was serving when he was killed in action on April 25th 1917 (Second Battle of the Scarpe). He has no marked grave and is commemorated on the Arras Memorial. He left a widow, Bertha, and a son, Norman Rennie Shingles born in 1913.
As an adult, Robert Norman Shingles described himself as Norman Shingles. He married Bertha Clegg in 1909.
On 1st November 1923 Bertha Shingles and her ten year old son, Norman, of 25 Park Avenue, Blackpool, sailed on board SS "Ballarat" for Melbourne, Australia, which was to be their country of intended permanent residence. Norman Rennie Shingles died at Clay, Victoria, in 1982.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Frank Rogers
Date: Tuesday 10th February 2015 at 12:21 AM

Alan,

Thank you so much for your superfast response, The information given is very interesting and extremely helpful.

Kind regards,

Frank
Posted by: Lynn Fellows {Email left}
Location: Verwood Dorset
Date: Saturday 7th February 2015 at 7:12 PM
My Grandfather William John Rogers (commonly known as Jack) of Petersfield, Hants working as Family Grocer in Station Road born in Trotton, Sussex on 3rd June 1893 he joined up after conscription came into force I know he was in France as I have found cards they used to send home. He was said to be 'missing killed in action' then some time later he came back from the war though not sure when. What I was told after he and his Wife passed away that William J Rogers had been gassed which explains why he had bad stomach problems and couldn't drink hot drinks only orange squash and beer his teeth were rotten so he had to cut up his meat into tiny bits as he couldn't chew meat he lived until 1965. Amongst the other items I found was a photo of him wearing a cap badge for Hampshire Carabineers.
Hope you can help me please. Lynn
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 7th February 2015 at 9:38 PM

Dear Lynn,
It is not possible to identify a soldier by his name only. It is necessary to know which squadron he served in and his regimental number(s) to make a positive identification. It would also be necessary to date the photograph. Unfortunately, there are no records for William John Rogers that can be identified from the information you have. The Hampshire Yeomanry (Carabiniers) existed before the outbreak of war and were mobilized in August 1914 for the defence of the coast at Portsmouth. In March 1916 the squadrons were split up and they each became cavalry units with "A" Squadron serving in the 58th Division and going to France in January 1917. "B" Squadron and the regimental HQ joined the 60th Division and went to France in June 1916. "C" Squadron joined the 61st Division and went to France in May 1916. The Regiment then re-formed in January 1917 as part of IX Corps in France. On 25th August 1917, the Regiment was dismounted, separated from its horses and sent to Rouen to train as infantry. On 29th September 1917 the Hampshire Yeomanry became part of the 15th Battalion Hampshire Regiment at Caestre in France. On 12th November 1917 the 15th Battalion Hampshire Regiment was sent to Italy until March 1918 when it returned to France until the end of the war.
Without knowing which squadron he served in or his regimental number(s) it is not possible to suggest where he served or whether he remained with the Yeomanry during the war.
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Jenny Mottram {Email left}
Location: Brighton
Date: Thursday 5th February 2015 at 1:18 PM
Could someone help please with further details about my Grandfather who was injured in WW1 but we know very little about his active service. I am visiting the battlefields over Easter and hope to be able to see where he fought and was injured. His name was Oswald Heath and I understand he was an officer with the Royal Hampshire Regiment and was severely injured by an exploding shell on or around 12th April 1918. I understand he was fighting in the battle of Lys but it took 3 days to find him. He was taken to Etaples and then onto Regents Park where a surgeon did a fantastic job reconstructing his face. Naturally he never talked about his awful experience but we as family now want to know more. Many thanks
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 5th February 2015 at 4:57 PM

Dear Jenny,
The person you are seeking was probably Oliver Ignatius Heath (born July-September 1891, Islington) who was posted as a private soldier, numbered 25260, to the 22nd Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) in 1916. He served in France from 1st June 1916 to 20th May 1917 with the 22nd Royal Fusiliers before returning to the UK (probably to attend an officer cadet school) and then being commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the Hampshire Regiment on 30th October 1917. Officers' records are not available online and have to be ordered from the UK National Archives. The likely record is "2/Lieutenant Oswald Ignatious HEATH; The Hampshire Regiment", which is Catalogue reference WO339/126480. See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1180301
You would need to know from his records in which battalion of the Hampshire Regiment he served and then download that battalion's war diary from The National Archives "Discovery" website (£3.30 or more). The Hampshire Regiment had 17 battalions that served overseas in the First World War. During the First World War the regiment was named the Hampshire Regiment and was not granted the Royal title until 1946.
The war diary of the 22nd Battalion The Royal Fusiliers is available to download (£3.30) at:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352009
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Jenny Mottram
Date: Thursday 5th February 2015 at 10:08 PM

Thank you so much Alan, you have provided such great information. I'll get in touch with the National Archives for their downloads.
Thanks again and best wishes
Jenny
Posted by: Andym {Email left}
Location: Lancashire
Date: Wednesday 4th February 2015 at 5:41 PM
Hi Alan
You helped a while back with a few relatives, and we tried looking for one who signed up and lied about his age?

Discovered a posible service no and regiment now? but struggling on more? service records etc should they still exist?

Edward Norman
Service No: 21222
8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment.
Someone on a forum has quoted "wounded sept 1916" but not yet tracked down any info where this came from?
I know he was wounded and sent home, ahd a limp for life from shrapnel, this was when we assume they found out he lied about his age?
Was born 1898, we guess he possibly put his age at enlistment of about 1896 to make him 18.
He snuck off and left to join his father, an Edward Samuel Norman, 529th Royal Engineers, 1st East Riding. service no. 474251.
I have found the War diary for the 8th and apart from action between the 1st and 8th Sept at Hulluch Sector, Loos, with casualties they were mainly training at Moeux-Les-Mimes. WO95/1424/2
Have found his medal card on Nat Archives and medal roll card on Ancestry.
I am still double checking everything about but its all looking about right so far?
Any further info greatly appreciated?
With Thanks
Andy and Family
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 4th February 2015 at 9:07 PM

Dear Andy,
Edward Samuel Norman, born 1878, served from 6th January 1915 in the UK and went to France on 16th September 1915, so anyone following him into service would have enlisted in or after January 1915. His son, Edward Samuel Norman, with a birth registered at Norwich in Jan-March 1898, would have been aged 17 early in 1915.
No individual service record has survived for Edward Norman 21222 East Yorkshire Regiment. There are no records which provide any biographical information to further identify him, although the local paper stated he resided in Hull. He qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service overseas before December 31st 1915, he did not go abroad until some date after January 1st 1916, so he would have been part of a draft of reinforcements to the 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment that had been serving in France and Flanders since 9th September 1915. After National Registration Day on August 15th 1915, everyone's age, or date of their 18th birthday if they were aged 15 to 17, was registered so the ability for enlisting under-age was much reduced after August 15th 1915. Edward Norman 21222 might well have been compulsorily conscripted on his 18th birthday in 1916. He was transferred to the Class Z Reserve at the end of the war, probably early in 1919. The Class Z reserve was for soldiers who would be recalled for active service if the Armistice did not hold, so he was fit enough to fight and had served until the end of the war as the Class Z Reserve was not created until December 1918. The Hull Daily Mail of 19th August 1916 included "Norman 21222 E. (Hull)" in the lengthy wounded lists for the East Yorkshire Regiment (© Local World Limited courtesy of The British Library Board via the British Newspaper Archive). These might have applied to The Battle of Delville Wood (15th July 3rd September 1916). Names appeared in newspaper casualty lists within a couple of weeks of the man being wounded. Norman 21222 did not qualify for a War Badge for being discharged through wounds, so if he had been wounded he would apparently have returned to service once he had recovered. In the Army reforms of February 1918, the 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment left 3rd Division on 17th February 1918 to merge with the 12th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment forming the 10th Entrenching Battalion. Entrenching battalions trained as infantry battalions while they also provided working parties to assist Royal Engineers working on trench repairs; wiring; road making to the front line; carrying parties for taking engineer stores forward; burial parties and clearing the battlefield.
Edward Norman 21222 was certainly from Hull according to the 1916 casualty lists. Compared with the Edward Normans living in Hull in the 1911 Census taken five years previously, 21222 does appear to be the Edward Norman who was the son of Edward and Frances Norman, whose address in 1911 and 1915 (Edward senior's enlistment) was 6, St George's Avenue, Hull. But I can't prove it.
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Gill Railton {Email left}
Location: Hull East Yorkshire
Date: Saturday 31st January 2015 at 9:12 PM
Hello Alan
I am hoping you are able to help or point me in the right direction.
I am trying to find more about Ralph Snaith born 17th May 1888 in Port Clarence Durham the son of James & Fanny Snaith and husband of Annie Snaith ( nee Lawrence).
He enlisted in West Hartlepool in September 1914 into West Yorkshire Regiment (19098) and in November found unfit for active service,
Re enlisted and went into the East Yorkshire Regiment (50975) and was killed 15th August 1918 in Flanders.
At some point he was awarded the military medal, but I cannot find anything for this, can you help?

Thank you
Gill
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 1st February 2015 at 12:54 PM

Dear Gill,
The Military Medal was instigated on 25th March 1916 for individual or collective acts of bravery. Citations for the Military Medal were not published nationally. The only citation was presented to the soldier with the medal. It is therefore unlikely you would find a record of the occasion which led to the awarding of the medal beyond the family muniments.
Ralph Snaith's campaign medal roll showed he served in France and Flanders with the 12th Battalion Prince of Wales's West Yorkshire Regiment. The associated medal index-card showed he entered France as a member of that regiment on 6th October 1915 suggesting he was part of a draft of reinforcements as the 12th Battalion itself had gone to France in September 1915. The Battalion war diary stated for October 9th 1915: "6.0 pm - a draft of 149 N.C.O.s & men from 3rd & 13th Bns arrived with 13 officers." The 3rd Battalion and the 13th Battalion were both training battalions stationed in England.
The 12th Battalion was disbanded during the reforms of the Army in February 1918. That could possibly have been an occasion when he was transferred to the East Yorkshire Regiment.
Military Medal awards were promulgated in long alphabetical lists in "The London Gazette" some months after the event which led to the medal being conferred. The Gazette showed he was awarded the Military Medal while serving as a private with the appointment of lance corporal in the West Yorkshire Regiment in June 1917. See:
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/13105/page/1210
The war diary of the 12th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment might have mentioned the award. It can be downloaded from The National Archives (cost £3.30). See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352091
Extracts from the diary are available online at:
http://www.pwoyorkshire.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36&Itemid=44
The initial recommendation for the award would have been sent to senior divisional commanders and copies of recommendations have been known to survive in regimental archives. Ralph Snaith of the 11th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment was "presumed to have died" on 15th August 1918 (source: 1914-15 medal roll).
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Gill Railton
Date: Sunday 1st February 2015 at 5:17 PM

That is great thank you Alan you once again have given me lots to look into. I really appreciate your help and shall be making a donation to you charity.
Best Wishes
Gill
Reply from: Alan Snaith
Date: Tuesday 17th February 2015 at 3:06 PM

Hi, Gill,
I am curious to know of your interest in my Grand uncle Ralph Snaith--he has caused me some headaches with my research!
I have a tree on Ancestry--Alan Snaith family2013 updated.
Would you please send--via the contact editor link your e-mail address.

Regards, Alan.
Reply from: Gill Railton
Date: Tuesday 17th February 2015 at 4:54 PM

Hi Alan
I would be happy for you to forward my e-mail address to Alan Snaith ,regarding his great uncle Ralph Snaith.

Best Wishes
Gill Railton
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 17th February 2015 at 5:03 PM

Dear Gill,
I do not have your e-mail address as only the site editor has access to them. Please use the "contact editor" button at the bottom of this page.
With kind regards,
Alan

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