The World War Forum (Page 33)

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Posted by: Tess {No contact email}
Location: Newton Abbot
Date: Sunday 20th March 2016 at 8:11 PM
Hi Alan,
I am looking at the service record of Robert Sydney Ashworth. 04/122505, who was a master baker in the RSC.
There is an acronym: R.S.P.D. unit on his Army Form Z.11.
Any idea what this stands for,please?
Thanks
tess
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 20th March 2016 at 9:35 PM

Dear Tess,
His number prefix was S4 for Supply section of the ASC (Army Service Corps) in Kitchener’s 4th New Army. As a baker he would have worked in “supply” as opposed to “transport” which were the two distinct roles of the Army Service Corps.
RSPD ASC stood for Reserve Supply Personnel Depot, Army Service Corps. There were a few of these. I have noted Prees Heath (Shropshire), Hastings, Bath and Aldershot. Robert was among the supply personnel of the ASC and when he was struck off the strength of the Egyptian Expeditionary Force he would have been posted to a Depot in England where he was among the reserve personnel of the supply section awaiting a posting or demobilization, hence: Reserve Personnel Supply Depot.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Tess
Date: Sunday 20th March 2016 at 9:39 PM

Thanks Alan,
As usual, a great help when there was nowhere else to turn to.
Tess
Posted by: John Dalhouse {No contact email}
Location: Weston Super Mare
Date: Saturday 19th March 2016 at 7:55 PM
Hello Alan, my wife and I are trying to find more info on a Sgt. Horace Edward Lucas,who married in 1908,aged 29, and is listed on his marriage certificate as being in the 3rd.Rifle Brigade at Raglan
Barracks, Devonport. Have drawn a blank so far.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 20th March 2016 at 12:54 PM

Dear John,
There are no obvious records for Horace Edward Lucas of the 3rd Battalion The Rifle Brigade beyond his marriage certificate that you have. From his age at marriage in 1908, he was born in 1879. The only recorded General Registration Office birth of a Horace Lucas in England in 1879 was recorded in the Glanford Brigg registration district in Lincolnshire. That district included Appleby, Lincolnshire. From the 1881census there was a Horace Lucas aged 1, living at Appleby, Glanford Brigg, the fourth child of George William and Matilda Victoria Lucas. George was a head gardener. The family moved to the South of England to Winkfield in Berkshire by 1891 and Gerrards Cross by 1901 where the head of the family remained as a head gardener.
It would have taken Horace Lucas a few years to reach the rank of Sergeant in the regular army with the Rifle Brigade so it seemed plausible he had served in the Second Anglo-Boer War (1899 – 1901) but there is no obvious record of that. To have attained promotion to Sergeant he would have to have served sometime between, say, 1900 and his marriage date of 1908, the year in which the 3rd Battalion Rifle Brigade moved between Bordon and Devonport. Had he been discharged before 1913 his discharge papers should have survived, but, again, there is no record. However, the Royal Hospital Chelsea, which administered pensions and discharge, did not always retain records of men who were since deceased. There is no obvious service record or medal roll from the First World War, but many of those records stated only a man’s initials and surname, so it is not possible to identify a man without the addition of his regimental number in the First World War. He might not have remained in the Rifle Brigade during that war. It seems as if his records have vanished.
And that often indicates a death.
Tracing the deaths of men named Horace Lucas by year of birth, there was a Horace Lucas, born 1879, of the Willows, Datchett Road, Slough, who died at sea on 13th September 1909. The national probate calendar recorded probate was granted to George William Lucas, a gardener, who might well have been the father noted above.
Deaths at sea and deaths of British Nationals overseas are indexed and imaged on the commercial Findmypast.co.uk website. There are two relevant entries for Horace Lucas, born 1879, and the actual records can be viewed with the minimum pay-as-you-go credits (£6.95) on that website. To comply with U.K. copyright legislation the details of the entries cannot be transcribed here.
Due to the lack of proven biographical information and lack of surviving military records for Horace Edward Lucas, the detail presented on this web forum has been suggested in good faith and is offered for general information purposes. It is not possible to warrant the accuracy or completeness of this information and any reliance you place on the information is your own responsibility.
With kind regards,
Alan

Posted by: Stephen Mcfarlane {Email left}
Location: Belfast
Date: Wednesday 16th March 2016 at 9:17 PM
Hello alan would you have any informaion on
SGT Walter Martin 16 pioneer Batt RIR enlisted 16th NOV 1914
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 16th March 2016 at 11:17 PM

Dear Stephen,
No individual service record has survived for Walter Martin so it is not possible to state his military service. The 16th Battalion was raised from the County Down Volunteers at Lurgan in September 1914. Walter Martin went to France as a Lance-corporal in the 16th Battalion (2nd County Down) Royal Irish Rifles (Pioneers) on 5th October 1915 and ended his service as a sergeant on 7th March 1919. The 16th Battalion served with the 36th (Ulster) Division. Men of Pioneer battalions often worked in sections attached to the brigade Roya Engineers field companies. For the 36th divisional engagements see Chris Baker’s website, The Long, Long Trail.
http://www.1914-1918.net/36div.htm
The war diary of the 16th Battalion can be downloaded (£3.45 charges apply) from:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354007
Sergeant Martin qualified for the 1914-15 Star; the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Stephen Mcfarlane
Date: Thursday 17th March 2016 at 8:42 PM

Once again Alan you have proven yourself to be a great help, THANK YOU
Posted by: Becca {Email left}
Location: East Yorkshire
Date: Monday 14th March 2016 at 10:52 PM
Hello Alan, it's me yet again asking for your help
I am trying to find out more about two members of the Walker family. The first is Edward John Walker no 7286 who enlisted in 1903. The second is an Edward Walker with a number 3519. This is all information I can give you, so anything you could tell me would be a great bonus.
Once again, many thanks
Kind regards

Becca
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 15th March 2016 at 6:52 PM

Dear Becca,
Records of both those men are from before the First World War and are held in the Discharge papers from the Royal Hospital Chelsea pension records (1760-1913) which are in the UK National Archives at Kew in Catalogue series WO 97. They are available online via the pay as you go or subscription website, Findmypast.co.uk.
The records cannot be transcribed on an online forum as that would be a breach of the Findmypast terms and conditions.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Becca
Date: Tuesday 15th March 2016 at 7:14 PM

Thank you Alan for pointing me in the right direction. I really have appreciated all the help you have given me.

Kind regards

Becca
Posted by: Bella {No contact email}
Location: Esher
Date: Saturday 12th March 2016 at 8:47 PM
Dear Alan,

Am almost embarrassed to call upon you yet again but wonder if you could help. Trying to trace Great Uncle James John Whitehead, born 6th November 1894, Peckham. Parents William and Elizabeth Byrne Whitehead. Trying to establish whether or not he served in the Great War, without much success.

He did emigrate to the Cape, South Africa, departing 7th April 1921 from Port of London on SS Durham Castle aged 26. If you can glean any info, not only would I be grateful but maybe I could trace any of his descendants.

Hope you are well and with kind regards.

Bella
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 12th March 2016 at 11:04 PM

Dear Bella,
It is not possible to trace James John Whitehead in the First World War by his name only. Very few of the surviving military records state a date and place of birth, so it is necessary to know his arm of service or regiment and regimental number to identify him in the remaining records. Sorry, but that’s the result of most of the records being destroyed in 1940 during the London blitz.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Bella
Date: Sunday 13th March 2016 at 8:33 AM

Dear Alan,

Many thanks for your prompt reply.

With kind regards.

Bella

Posted by: Clive Hawkswood {Email left}
Location: London
Date: Tuesday 8th March 2016 at 1:40 PM
Hi, I'm writing a series of novels set in WW1 and for the third one a character, a British officer, is held in a military detention centre in early 1915 somewhere in Belgium or northern France. I'm anxious as ever to get the facts straight, but my usual sources don't have any detail about such places. Anything you might have to hand or some references that you could point me too would be very gratefully received.
Posted by: Colin {No contact email}
Location: Worcester
Date: Monday 7th March 2016 at 6:56 PM
I am trying to help a friend find her relatives final resting place. His name was Sgt. Edgar Ratcliffe born in Worcester in 1890. He was the son of Thomas Ratcliffe and his wife Jane.
Edgar joined the 1/7th Worcestershire regiment , his number was 2639, he was killed in action August 21 1916 in France . My friend would like to know where his grave is situated so a visit can be made.
It would be wonderful if we could find more information on Edgar.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 7th March 2016 at 8:11 PM

Dear Colin,
Sergeant Edgar Ratcliffe, 2369, is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing in the Somme sector of France because he has no known grave. On 21st August 1916, the 1/7th Worcestershires were fighting for the ridge at Pozieres alongside the Gloucestershire Regiment with the 48th Division. See Chris Baker’s website, The Long, Long Trail:
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/48th-south-midland-division/
Sergeant Ratcliffe is commemorated on Pier and Face 5 A and 6 C on the Thiepval Memorial, indicating the death was officially declared by his regiment but there is no known burial for the individual or he was buried where graves cannot be identified to an individual soldier.
Public access to the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing and the surrounding area will be limited between the dates of 19th June to 26th June and from 3rd to 8th July 2016.
The location and design of the site makes access for people with limited mobility difficult and people using wheelchairs or mobility scooters may require some help to reach the memorial.
Edgar Ratcliffe had gone to France with the Battalion on 31st March 1915 as a private and had risen to the rank of Sergeant. He qualified for the 1914-15 Star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Colin
Date: Tuesday 8th March 2016 at 3:32 PM

Dear Alan
Thank you very much for all this information about Edgar and your speedy reply. My friend will be pleased you have found out so much. She will not be able to visit a grave but plans if possible to visit Thiepval in August which is 100 years after Edgar died to find his name on the pier .
Once more thank you Alan.
Colin
Posted by: Young Buzzard {Email left}
Location: Newton Abbot
Date: Monday 7th March 2016 at 10:52 AM
Hi Alan
Firstly thank you for the large and very interesting amount of new information you were able to give me about Lt Leicester Struben.
Now I need to ask if you can tell me anything about Private Henry James Broome Regimental Number G/6944 of the 10th Battalion Queen's Own (Royal West Kent) Regiment who was killed in action near
Voormeeze village on either 14/15/16 December 1916. I would appreciate any information you may be able to find.
David.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 7th March 2016 at 7:47 PM

Dear David,
No individual service record has survived for Henry James Broome so it is not possible to state his military service in full. An Army medal roll recorded he served with the 10th Battalion Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent) Regiment as a private GS/6944 (General Service) and qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service abroad before December 31st 1915, he did not go overseas until some date after January 1st 1916.
The 10th Battalion had been raised at Maidstone in May 1915 and went to France on 4th May 1916 where it served with 118th Infantry Brigade in the 39th Division. The Battalion fpought in the later engagements in the Somme sector until November 1916 and then moved to the Ypres sector. The war diary for the 10th Battalion recorded they were billeted at Dickebusch (two companies); the school area of Voormezeele (A Company) and the convent at Voormezeele (B Company) from December 9th 1916 while also manning trenches forward of Dickebusch in the left sector at St Eloi. At this time they provided working parties for the Royal Engineers. The war diary recorded one man was killed and two were wounded on 14th December 1916 by enemy machine gun fire on Convent Lane communication trench at 6 p.m. [probably a working party was moving engineers’ stores along the trench under cover of darkness]. The next day, December 15th, the Battalion withdrew from the line at 9.15 a.m. when they were relieved by the 18th King’s Royal Rifle Corps. They marched to Chippewa Camp by 1 p.m. During the relief they suffered one man wounded.
The CWGC Debt of Honour; Soldiers Died in the Great War (HMSO) and the Army Register of Soldiers’ Effects recorded Henry Broome’s date of death as December 15th 1916 when he was killed in action. Those same sources do not record a man being killed on December 14th 1916 in the 10th Battalion. So, it is possible Henry Broome was the man killed by machine gun fire at 6 p.m. on December 14th. He was buried at Voormezeele Enclosure No.3 which is 4 kms south west of Ypres.
Henry James Broome was born in 1880 at Wandsworth, the son of Charles and Emily Broome recorded at 28, Palmerston Road, Wandsworth, in the 1881 census. Charles was a domestic gardener. The family moved to Chislehurst but by 1911 Henry James Broome appears to have become a butler to Alexander Nelson Radcliffe a solicitor who lived in a 20 room house at 45 Kensington Square, London. Among Henry’s siblings was Arthur George Broome, born in 1885 who, in 1911, was a fishmonger’s assistant living with his widowed mother at Alexander Road, Chislehurst.
The Army medal rolls showed an Arthur G. Broome, with the regimental number GS/6943 in the 10th Battalion Queen’s Own (Royal West Kent) Regiment, so it appears the two brothers served side by side. Arthur G. Broome enlisted on 3rd June 1915 and was discharged through wounds on 18th April 1917.
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: George Macdonald {Email left}
Location: Inverness
Date: Monday 7th March 2016 at 10:34 AM
Hi sir
I hope you can give me some more info concerning my grandfathers activities in ww1
Hi name was William John Macdonald b.18/12/1896 died 1973.
He enlisted with the Cameron highlanders TF on the 14/8/14 to 10/3/19 then joined colours on 11/8/19 he was awarded the war and victory medal
I have his army records which is giving me very limited information.
He had loads of numbers 1834. 34621. 200318. 612416. 2922870
He was in the Camerons until6/6/27.
Would he have qualified for any territorial medals,also on his sheet there is info saying casualty card B120 does not say anything else
Thankyou
George
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 7th March 2016 at 7:08 PM

Dear George,
As William McDonald re-joined the colours in 1919 it is likely his full service record is still held by the Ministry of Defence as information from 1920 onwards is not in the public domain. The MoD will conduct a search for £30. See:
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/overview
Without his service record it is not possible to state his military service.
An Army medal roll recorded he qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal while with the 4th Battalion Queen’s Own Cameron Highlanders. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service abroad before December 31st 1915, he did not go overseas until some date after January 1st 1916.
The 4th Cameron Highlanders were absorbed by the 1st Battalion on 19th March 1916. The 1st Battalion Cameron Highlanders served with 1st Division. See Chris Baker’s website, the Long Long Trail:
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/1st-division/
The war diaries of the 1st Battalion Cameron Highlanders are available to download from the National Archives (charges apply):
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=%221+Battalion+Cameron+Highlanders%22
The information here is based solely on the medal rolls and may not reflect all of his service so it is not possible to warrant the accuracy or completeness this information.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: George Macdonald
Date: Monday 7th March 2016 at 7:24 PM

Hi Alan
I got my grandfathers service records,but there nothing concerning his service from 1914-1918,
Could this records been destroyed.?all I can find is his mic card.have done lots of research and running out of ideas
Thankyou
George
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 7th March 2016 at 7:38 PM

Dear George,
There are no service records for 1914 - 1918 that I can find. They might have been destroyed in 1940 when the war office repository was bombed and most records from the First World War were destroyed. However, if he served beyond 1920 they might have been consolidated with his later records which are not open top public view. The only other record was the medal roll which stated he served with th 4th Battalion.
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Molly {Email left}
Location: South Yorks
Date: Sunday 6th March 2016 at 7:47 AM
I am trying to find out about my great uncle Gunner Patrick Meleady who died in 1918 and is buried in Glasnevin cemetery Dublin.
Thank you
Molly
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 6th March 2016 at 4:43 PM

Dear Molly,
No individual service record has survived for Patrick Meleady, so it is not possible to state his military service. An Army medal roll recorded he served as Gunner 656798 in the Royal Field Artillery and he qualified for the British War Medal and Victory medal for serving overseas. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service overseas before December 31st 1915, he did not serve abroad until some date after January 1st 1916. He wrote his will on April 7th 1918 leaving his effects to his mother, so he might not have gone abroad until 1918. He died on 15th January 1919 at the “King George Hospital”. The Army Register of Soldiers’ Effects recorded he was a repatriated prisoner of war who died in London. However, I have been unable to find any surviving record for him in the International Red Cross P.O.W. archive. He was born on Easter Sunday, April 10th 1898, the son of Bernard and Ellen Meleady. Patrick appears to have died at the King George Hospital that was a war hospital on Stamford Street, London, SE1. His death certificate appears to be Patrick Meleady, male, born 1898, died Jan-Mar 1919, Lambeth, London, Volume 1D page 307. It can be ordered from:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Molly
Date: Sunday 6th March 2016 at 5:18 PM

Thank you so very much Alan.
It is wonderful of you to have sourced this very valuable information so quickly.
Is there anywhere I might look to find out where he was held as a Prisoner of War and what happened to him to precipitate his being taken into St George's Hospital and his death shortly after this? Might the hospital hold records?
Is it normal for a soldiers War Records to not be in existence?
Once more thank you so much.
Kind Regards
Molly
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 6th March 2016 at 7:32 PM

Dear Molly,
You would be fortunate to find further records for Patrick Meleady. The majority of soldiers’ records were completely destroyed in 1940 during the London blitz when the War Office repository in Arnside Street, Walworth, was bombed on September 8th 1940. Prisoner of War records were kept in the form of index cards and paper registers by the International Committee of the Red Cross in Geneva. Not all soldiers’ details were forwarded to the Red Cross and not all records have survived through the past century. The ICRC digital archive at http://grandeguerre.icrc.org/
can be searched online. However the surnames are not indexed alphabetically but phonetically. I have been unable to find a record for Patrick Meleady.
The King George Hospital was a war-time auxiliary war hospital run by the Red Cross and St John’s Voluntary Aid Detachments in London Command and ceased functioning in June 1919. The majority of such military hospital records were destroyed after the war although a small fraction survived and are held at the UK National Archives in Catalogue Reference MH 106, which does not include King George Hospital. Even if they have survived somewhere, medical records are generally not open to public view for 100 years. If military hospital records have survived they could be in the Wellcome Library or one of the university special collections. The Wellcome collection of war hospital records is shown at:
http://archives.wellcomelibrary.org/DServe/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Overview.tcl&dsqSearch=%28Sources_guides_used%3D%27Hospitals:%20military%20and%20naval%27%29&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=0
During the Second World War many archived records were re-cycled to alleviate the paper shortages.
Patrick could have been admitted to hospital when he was repatriated or he might have been infected during the flu pandemic of late 1918. His death certificate will give the cause of death. There is a history of the King George Hospital at:
http://ezitis.myzen.co.uk/kinggeorgestamford.html
and there is a general article on wartime hospital records at:
http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/125.html
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: John Meleady
Date: Saturday 9th April 2016 at 7:50 PM

Hi Molly,

We must be cousins.I remember visiting Moss Side to see your family in the late 60's or early 70's .I have one of Patrick Meleady's war medals which I inherited from my father Barney Meleady.I believe it is the Victory medal On the rim of it is the following information '101554 G N R P. Meleady. R.A.'I also have a copy of a photograph of Patrick Meleady in uniform and a copy of his commemoration scroll.He is remembered on the Glasnevin Cemetery war memorial near the front gate on the Finglas Road. The Cross of Sacrifice was erected by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
Many thanks Alan for the above information and research. I was unaware of most of the information you have kindly provided.
Best wishes,
John Meleady
Reply from: Molly
Date: Friday 8th July 2016 at 6:44 PM

Dear John,
We are cousins, my grandfather was your father's brother and you visited my mum when she was a little girl ( Chrissy Meleady MBE) as you said, after she had come over from Dublin with her mum and her brothers and sisters to England to her maternal grandparents house in Hulton Street.
I would love to be able to see the items you referenced and to catch up with you on other areas we have uncovered this end too, with the kind help of Conor from Glasenevin and others if you would like to do this to.
I am not sure Alan, whether you have a mechanism of passing on private details through another avenue other than through this public one, that you so brilliantly deliver?
I am now searching up where he might have been held as a Prisoner of War during WW1 and the conditions there, as best I can.
Thank you John for coming back to me and sharing the information as you have done and thank you once more Alan for your expert input to.
Best Wishes
Molly
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 8th July 2016 at 7:16 PM

Dear Molly,
Not all replies to messages have an e-mail address so the site editor might not have a contact for John. Please see the instructions at the top of page 1 of the Forum for contacting other people.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Molly
Date: Saturday 2nd June 2018 at 1:01 PM

Dear Alan,
I found a further link to Patrick Meleady.
He is featured in the Dedication of the Cross of Sacrifice
by the President of Ireland, Michael D. Higgins
and centenary commemoration of the First World War
attended by HRH Prince Edward, Duke of Kent,
President, Commonwealth War Graves Commission
31 July 2014 which can be sourced at:-

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gunner+patrick+meleady+glasnevin+dublin&rlz=1C1AVNE_enGB727GB727&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjz6vqyg7XbAhVMK8AKHYVyBewQ_AUICygC&biw=1707&bih=827#imgrc=jn0jTwcbgq0phM:

I am continuing to try, through the leads you very kindly shared with me, to find out about his internment in a POW Camp etc.
Many Thanks once more for all your expert assistance
Best Wishes
Molly

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