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Alan Greveson's World War 1 Forum (Page 24)

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Posted by: Eleanor {Email left}
Location: Mansfield
Date: Tuesday 10th February 2015 at 12:30 PM
My maternal Grandfather Frank Morris, son of Pryce and Elizabeth Morris, was born in Aberdovey September 22nd 1880. His first employment was as a coachman groom in Wavertree Lancashire. he later became a fireman aboard the S S Dora which was part of the Aberdovey and Barmouth steamship company which travelled between Liverpool ,down the west coast of wales to Aberystywyth delivering goods. Later it did trips to and from Ireland transporting aggregate and livestock.during, what turned out to be its final voyage on May 1st 1917,a German submarine surfaced and ordered that a boat should be sent out to it to convey men to the Dora. Subsequently the crew of the Dora were ordered to take to their boats and row to shore (The Mull of Galloway) 11 miles away and the germans then set explosives to scuttle the Dora. I am trying to find the crew list of the Dora and have tried several sites and have found two men Lewis Jones and William Goodchild via { Aberdovey past and present on facebook) plus my Grandfather, but I believe there to be a low percentage of crew lists available. A few years ago ,Liverpool Maritime Museum sent me a booklet about the A&B steamship company and recently, on a submarine site, I have found all the details about the sub that sank the Dora.
Question 1 Is it possible to find out about the crew members?
Q 2 Did the crew receive compensation as one person has indicated that her ancestor did?
Q 3 Did they receive some sort of War medal?

Yours Sincerely, Eleanor.

P.S. I have the newspaper cutting about the event which I only came across after Franks death so knew nothing previously, plus I also found a photo of him and crew plus a couple of wives on board the Dora.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 10th February 2015 at 8:17 PM

Dear Eleanor,
Crew lists are difficult to establish as they are incomplete and scattered both in the UK and Canada. Very few would be found online. You would need to visit London or seek a quotation online for records held by The National Archives. As there were dozens of ships named "Dora" you need the vessel's official number which was 113396. The ship was small and would have had a small crew.
The National Archives has the ship's registry in its index:
This includes duplicates of all forms entered, relating to the registry and ownership of ships removed from the British Register that was kept by the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen. "Dora" was removed in 1917. There are ship's agreements and crew lists for 1915-1916-1917 for vessel 113396 held at The National Archives. See:
Click on the titles of each year to expand the details and apply for a quote.
The National Maritime Museum at Greenwich is a possible repository of crew lists.
There is a crew list indexing project at
Men of the mercantile marine were employed by the Board of Trade and any claim for compensation would have been a matter between the individual and the Board of Trade assessed on an individual basis. Records would be held by the family or within the vast number of Board of Trade records at The National Archives. See:
The British War Medal was only awarded to men of the mercantile marine who had undertaken approved service in hostile waters. Home waters between Belfast and Liverpool probably did not count despite the U-boat having hostile intent. Frank Morris is not listed on the list of recipients of medals awarded to the mercantile marine on The National Archives Website. For further advice see:
With kind regards,
Reply from: Eleanor
Date: Tuesday 10th February 2015 at 10:06 PM

Thank you so much, as usual, for your helpful information. I,ll endeavour to follow it up.
E P Cole.
Posted by: Frank Rogers {Email left}
Location: Haslingden Lancashire
Date: Monday 9th February 2015 at 2:04 PM
I am trying to find information relating to the WW1 service of one of my wife's relatives - Private James Atherton (23143) of the 1st Battalion East Lancashire Regiment.

Also, within a collection of old coins, I came across a 1855 dated coin, one side of which had been completely smoothed, and into it had been carefully scratched " R N SHINGLES 34004 X LAN FUS". I take this to mean 10th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers. In our local telephone book there is only one Shingles listed. If I can find out more about this individual then, if there is a family connection, I intend to pass this coin on.


Frank Rogers
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 9th February 2015 at 7:19 PM

Dear Frank,
No individual service record has survived for James Atherton so it is not possible to state his military service. An Army medal rolls index-card recorded he qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service overseas before December 31st 1915, he did not go overseas until some date after January 1st 1916. The card showed he first served with the 10th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment. However, the actual medal roll recorded he served in the 10th; 7th; 11th; 2nd and 1st Battalions of the East Lancashire Regiment.
The 10th Battalion was a training battalion based at Wareham and did not leave the U.K.. The 7th Battalion had gone to France on 18th July 1915, so James Atherton would have been part of a draft of reinforcements to the 7th Battalion sometime after January 1st 1916.The 7th Battalion was disbanded during the Army reforms of February 1918 and certainly some men were posted to the 11th Battalion on February 22nd 1918.
Private James Atherton 23143 East Lancashire Regiment was recorded as John (sic) Atherton, 23143, East Lancashire Regiment in the Army Register of Soldiers' Effects which stated he was "presumed dead on or since April 11th 1918". The CWGC Debt of Honour stated he died while serving with the 1st Battalion East Lancashire Regiment "formerly of the 2nd Battalion". He has no marked grave and is commemorated on The Ploegsteert Memorial.
The 7th Battalion served in the 56th Infantry Brigade in the 19th Division. See:
The 1st Battalion served in the 103rd Infantry Brigade in the 34th Division in the period from February to May 1918, and was fighting in The Battle of Estaires from 9th to 11th April 1918.
From March 21st 1918 the Allies were fighting a retreat during the German advance known as "Operation Michael" (Kaiserschlacht or Kaiser's Battle) on the Somme and many British units were in disarray following the Battle of St Quentin. It is possible that James served with the 11th Battalion and the 2nd Battalion during this period of confusion as the 11th, 2nd and 1st Battalions all fought at St Quentin and in the subsequent fighting during "Operation Michael" which ended on April 5th 1918.
No individual service record has survived to show dates of postings between battalions, but it would appear that James Atherton trained with the 10th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment in the U.K. before being posted to the 7th Battalion in France where he might have remained until February 1918 when the 7th Battalion was disbanded and men were posted to the 11th Battalion. In the muddled fighting of March 1918 on the Somme he appears to have served with the 2nd Battalion briefly before being killed while in the 1st Battalion at Estaires during the second phase of the Kaiserschlacht. James was aged 21 when he was killed, the son of George and Jane Atherton of Burnley.

R.N. Shingles was Robert Norman Shingles, born in 1888 at Waterfoot, Lancashire. He joined the Lancashire Fusiliers at Rawtenstall and was allotted a regimental number, 34004, by the 3rd Battalion which trained recruits at Hull and Withernsea on the Yorkshire coast from August 1914 onwards. At some stage after January 1st 1916 he was posted as part of a draft of reinforcements to the 10th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers which was with the 17th Division in France. He was later posted to the 1st Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers in which he was serving when he was killed in action on April 25th 1917 (Second Battle of the Scarpe). He has no marked grave and is commemorated on the Arras Memorial. He left a widow, Bertha, and a son, Norman Rennie Shingles born in 1913.
As an adult, Robert Norman Shingles described himself as Norman Shingles. He married Bertha Clegg in 1909.
On 1st November 1923 Bertha Shingles and her ten year old son, Norman, of 25 Park Avenue, Blackpool, sailed on board SS "Ballarat" for Melbourne, Australia, which was to be their country of intended permanent residence. Norman Rennie Shingles died at Clay, Victoria, in 1982.
With kind regards,
Reply from: Frank Rogers
Date: Tuesday 10th February 2015 at 12:21 AM


Thank you so much for your superfast response, The information given is very interesting and extremely helpful.

Kind regards,

Posted by: Lynn Fellows {Email left}
Location: Verwood Dorset
Date: Saturday 7th February 2015 at 7:12 PM
My Grandfather William John Rogers (commonly known as Jack) of Petersfield, Hants working as Family Grocer in Station Road born in Trotton, Sussex on 3rd June 1893 he joined up after conscription came into force I know he was in France as I have found cards they used to send home. He was said to be 'missing killed in action' then some time later he came back from the war though not sure when. What I was told after he and his Wife passed away that William J Rogers had been gassed which explains why he had bad stomach problems and couldn't drink hot drinks only orange squash and beer his teeth were rotten so he had to cut up his meat into tiny bits as he couldn't chew meat he lived until 1965. Amongst the other items I found was a photo of him wearing a cap badge for Hampshire Carabineers.
Hope you can help me please. Lynn
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 7th February 2015 at 9:38 PM

Dear Lynn,
It is not possible to identify a soldier by his name only. It is necessary to know which squadron he served in and his regimental number(s) to make a positive identification. It would also be necessary to date the photograph. Unfortunately, there are no records for William John Rogers that can be identified from the information you have. The Hampshire Yeomanry (Carabiniers) existed before the outbreak of war and were mobilized in August 1914 for the defence of the coast at Portsmouth. In March 1916 the squadrons were split up and they each became cavalry units with "A" Squadron serving in the 58th Division and going to France in January 1917. "B" Squadron and the regimental HQ joined the 60th Division and went to France in June 1916. "C" Squadron joined the 61st Division and went to France in May 1916. The Regiment then re-formed in January 1917 as part of IX Corps in France. On 25th August 1917, the Regiment was dismounted, separated from its horses and sent to Rouen to train as infantry. On 29th September 1917 the Hampshire Yeomanry became part of the 15th Battalion Hampshire Regiment at Caestre in France. On 12th November 1917 the 15th Battalion Hampshire Regiment was sent to Italy until March 1918 when it returned to France until the end of the war.
Without knowing which squadron he served in or his regimental number(s) it is not possible to suggest where he served or whether he remained with the Yeomanry during the war.
With kind regards,
Posted by: Jenny Mottram {Email left}
Location: Brighton
Date: Thursday 5th February 2015 at 1:18 PM
Could someone help please with further details about my Grandfather who was injured in WW1 but we know very little about his active service. I am visiting the battlefields over Easter and hope to be able to see where he fought and was injured. His name was Oswald Heath and I understand he was an officer with the Royal Hampshire Regiment and was severely injured by an exploding shell on or around 12th April 1918. I understand he was fighting in the battle of Lys but it took 3 days to find him. He was taken to Etaples and then onto Regents Park where a surgeon did a fantastic job reconstructing his face. Naturally he never talked about his awful experience but we as family now want to know more. Many thanks
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 5th February 2015 at 4:57 PM

Dear Jenny,
The person you are seeking was probably Oliver Ignatius Heath (born July-September 1891, Islington) who was posted as a private soldier, numbered 25260, to the 22nd Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment) in 1916. He served in France from 1st June 1916 to 20th May 1917 with the 22nd Royal Fusiliers before returning to the UK (probably to attend an officer cadet school) and then being commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the Hampshire Regiment on 30th October 1917. Officers' records are not available online and have to be ordered from the UK National Archives. The likely record is "2/Lieutenant Oswald Ignatious HEATH; The Hampshire Regiment", which is Catalogue reference WO339/126480. See:
You would need to know from his records in which battalion of the Hampshire Regiment he served and then download that battalion's war diary from The National Archives "Discovery" website (£3.30 or more). The Hampshire Regiment had 17 battalions that served overseas in the First World War. During the First World War the regiment was named the Hampshire Regiment and was not granted the Royal title until 1946.
The war diary of the 22nd Battalion The Royal Fusiliers is available to download (£3.30) at:
With kind regards,
Reply from: Jenny Mottram
Date: Thursday 5th February 2015 at 10:08 PM

Thank you so much Alan, you have provided such great information. I'll get in touch with the National Archives for their downloads.
Thanks again and best wishes
Posted by: Andym {Email left}
Location: Lancashire
Date: Wednesday 4th February 2015 at 5:41 PM
Hi Alan
You helped a while back with a few relatives, and we tried looking for one who signed up and lied about his age?

Discovered a posible service no and regiment now? but struggling on more? service records etc should they still exist?

Edward Norman
Service No: 21222
8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment.
Someone on a forum has quoted "wounded sept 1916" but not yet tracked down any info where this came from?
I know he was wounded and sent home, ahd a limp for life from shrapnel, this was when we assume they found out he lied about his age?
Was born 1898, we guess he possibly put his age at enlistment of about 1896 to make him 18.
He snuck off and left to join his father, an Edward Samuel Norman, 529th Royal Engineers, 1st East Riding. service no. 474251.
I have found the War diary for the 8th and apart from action between the 1st and 8th Sept at Hulluch Sector, Loos, with casualties they were mainly training at Moeux-Les-Mimes. WO95/1424/2
Have found his medal card on Nat Archives and medal roll card on Ancestry.
I am still double checking everything about but its all looking about right so far?
Any further info greatly appreciated?
With Thanks
Andy and Family
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 4th February 2015 at 9:07 PM

Dear Andy,
Edward Samuel Norman, born 1878, served from 6th January 1915 in the UK and went to France on 16th September 1915, so anyone following him into service would have enlisted in or after January 1915. His son, Edward Samuel Norman, with a birth registered at Norwich in Jan-March 1898, would have been aged 17 early in 1915.
No individual service record has survived for Edward Norman 21222 East Yorkshire Regiment. There are no records which provide any biographical information to further identify him, although the local paper stated he resided in Hull. He qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service overseas before December 31st 1915, he did not go abroad until some date after January 1st 1916, so he would have been part of a draft of reinforcements to the 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment that had been serving in France and Flanders since 9th September 1915. After National Registration Day on August 15th 1915, everyone's age, or date of their 18th birthday if they were aged 15 to 17, was registered so the ability for enlisting under-age was much reduced after August 15th 1915. Edward Norman 21222 might well have been compulsorily conscripted on his 18th birthday in 1916. He was transferred to the Class Z Reserve at the end of the war, probably early in 1919. The Class Z reserve was for soldiers who would be recalled for active service if the Armistice did not hold, so he was fit enough to fight and had served until the end of the war as the Class Z Reserve was not created until December 1918. The Hull Daily Mail of 19th August 1916 included "Norman 21222 E. (Hull)" in the lengthy wounded lists for the East Yorkshire Regiment (© Local World Limited courtesy of The British Library Board via the British Newspaper Archive). These might have applied to The Battle of Delville Wood (15th July 3rd September 1916). Names appeared in newspaper casualty lists within a couple of weeks of the man being wounded. Norman 21222 did not qualify for a War Badge for being discharged through wounds, so if he had been wounded he would apparently have returned to service once he had recovered. In the Army reforms of February 1918, the 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment left 3rd Division on 17th February 1918 to merge with the 12th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment forming the 10th Entrenching Battalion. Entrenching battalions trained as infantry battalions while they also provided working parties to assist Royal Engineers working on trench repairs; wiring; road making to the front line; carrying parties for taking engineer stores forward; burial parties and clearing the battlefield.
Edward Norman 21222 was certainly from Hull according to the 1916 casualty lists. Compared with the Edward Normans living in Hull in the 1911 Census taken five years previously, 21222 does appear to be the Edward Norman who was the son of Edward and Frances Norman, whose address in 1911 and 1915 (Edward senior's enlistment) was 6, St George's Avenue, Hull. But I can't prove it.
With kind regards,
Posted by: Gill Railton {Email left}
Location: Hull East Yorkshire
Date: Saturday 31st January 2015 at 9:12 PM
Hello Alan
I am hoping you are able to help or point me in the right direction.
I am trying to find more about Ralph Snaith born 17th May 1888 in Port Clarence Durham the son of James & Fanny Snaith and husband of Annie Snaith ( nee Lawrence).
He enlisted in West Hartlepool in September 1914 into West Yorkshire Regiment (19098) and in November found unfit for active service,
Re enlisted and went into the East Yorkshire Regiment (50975) and was killed 15th August 1918 in Flanders.
At some point he was awarded the military medal, but I cannot find anything for this, can you help?

Thank you
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 1st February 2015 at 12:54 PM

Dear Gill,
The Military Medal was instigated on 25th March 1916 for individual or collective acts of bravery. Citations for the Military Medal were not published nationally. The only citation was presented to the soldier with the medal. It is therefore unlikely you would find a record of the occasion which led to the awarding of the medal beyond the family muniments.
Ralph Snaith's campaign medal roll showed he served in France and Flanders with the 12th Battalion Prince of Wales's West Yorkshire Regiment. The associated medal index-card showed he entered France as a member of that regiment on 6th October 1915 suggesting he was part of a draft of reinforcements as the 12th Battalion itself had gone to France in September 1915. The Battalion war diary stated for October 9th 1915: "6.0 pm - a draft of 149 N.C.O.s & men from 3rd & 13th Bns arrived with 13 officers." The 3rd Battalion and the 13th Battalion were both training battalions stationed in England.
The 12th Battalion was disbanded during the reforms of the Army in February 1918. That could possibly have been an occasion when he was transferred to the East Yorkshire Regiment.
Military Medal awards were promulgated in long alphabetical lists in "The London Gazette" some months after the event which led to the medal being conferred. The Gazette showed he was awarded the Military Medal while serving as a private with the appointment of lance corporal in the West Yorkshire Regiment in June 1917. See:
The war diary of the 12th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment might have mentioned the award. It can be downloaded from The National Archives (cost £3.30). See:
Extracts from the diary are available online at:
The initial recommendation for the award would have been sent to senior divisional commanders and copies of recommendations have been known to survive in regimental archives. Ralph Snaith of the 11th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment was "presumed to have died" on 15th August 1918 (source: 1914-15 medal roll).
With kind regards,
Reply from: Gill Railton
Date: Sunday 1st February 2015 at 5:17 PM

That is great thank you Alan you once again have given me lots to look into. I really appreciate your help and shall be making a donation to you charity.
Best Wishes
Reply from: Alan Snaith
Date: Tuesday 17th February 2015 at 3:06 PM

Hi, Gill,
I am curious to know of your interest in my Grand uncle Ralph Snaith--he has caused me some headaches with my research!
I have a tree on Ancestry--Alan Snaith family2013 updated.
Would you please send--via the contact editor link your e-mail address.

Regards, Alan.
Reply from: Gill Railton
Date: Tuesday 17th February 2015 at 4:54 PM

Hi Alan
I would be happy for you to forward my e-mail address to Alan Snaith ,regarding his great uncle Ralph Snaith.

Best Wishes
Gill Railton
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 17th February 2015 at 5:03 PM

Dear Gill,
I do not have your e-mail address as only the site editor has access to them. Please use the "contact editor" button at the bottom of this page.
With kind regards,
Posted by: William E George {Email left}
Location: Rugby
Date: Friday 30th January 2015 at 4:07 PM
My relative Thomas Primrose was mentioned in dispatches for services in the 2nd Battalion, Seaforths,in the Great War(London Gazette 9th July 1919)
Posted by: Arthur Wright
Location: Barton On Humber
Date: Wednesday 28th January 2015 at 4:01 PM
Hi Alan,

I am looking for any information on Arthur Wright, Army service number J82858, Sorry don't know what Regiment only he was very young when he joined up as he also served in WW2. If possible I would much appreciate any information on Arthur's Father Freeman Wright, served and killed in WW1.

Thanking you in anticipation


Keith Rowland
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 28th January 2015 at 7:03 PM

Dear Keith,
Arthur Wright's number J82858 indicated he was a boy in the Royal Navy. His one-page record can be downloaded from the UK National Archives for a charge of £3.30. See:
The record will list the shore-bases and the ships on which he served with dates "to" and "from" in sequence. Arthur was born at Barton-on-Humber on 12th September 1902. There was more than one person named Freeman Wright who served in the First World War but from his son's entry in the 1911 census Freeman can be identified as the Freeman Wright, born at East Halton, Lincolnshire. He served as a private soldier number 1295 in the 12th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment (3rd Hull Pals). He was killed in action on 13th November 1916 (The Battle of the Ancre 1318 November 1916) and was buried at Euston Road Cemetery, Colincamps, France. See:
No individual service record has survived for this soldier so it is not possible to state his military service. However, his regimental number was allotted by the 12th Battalion which was formed at Hull in August 1914. The battalion trained at Hornsea, Ripon and Salisbury Plain and was sent to Egypt on 12th December 1915 from Devonport. It remained in Egypt briefly until March 1916 when it was sent to France with the 31st Division in anticipation of fighting on The Somme. See:
A medal index card recorded Freeman Wright arrived in Egypt on 28th December 1915, indicating he arrived there with the Battalion as a whole and was therefore probably one of its early recruits in Hull.
The war diary of the 12th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment while in France is available to download from The National Archives for £3.30. See:
The earlier diary (Dec 1915 to Feb 1916) is in Catalogue reference WO 95/4590 and is not available other than at the Archives at Kew.
Freeman Wright qualified for the 1914-15 Star, The British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
Second World War records are not in the public domain. See:
With kind regards,
Posted by: Tess {Email left}
Location: Newton Abbot
Date: Monday 26th January 2015 at 3:55 PM
Hi, Alan
I need help with a uniform ID.
Can you help? If so, how do I get a photo to you?
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 26th January 2015 at 4:23 PM

Dear Tess,
You could post it on a sharing site such as Flickr or Photobucket and then copy the URL into a message on this forum.
Reply from: Tess
Date: Monday 26th January 2015 at 5:28 PM

Thanks for the help:
Photobucket: 2 images of Stephen William Grist.


Any help with his regiment would be useful, thanks
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 26th January 2015 at 7:17 PM

Dear Tess,
The oval-framed photograph shows what might be the top of a white and blue Royal Engineers signaller's arm-band; otherwise the photo has no identifying details. The oval portrait was taken earlier than the second photograph which can be dated. In the second photograph the brass initials on his epaulettes might be R.E.. In the second photograph he is wearing the striped medal ribband of the Military Medal. "The London Gazette" recorded his award of the medal on July 6th 1917, confirming Stephen William Grist served with the Royal Engineers with the regimental number 62692. See:
He was awarded the Military Medal while he was a sapper (a private soldier with a trade-skill) and he then progressed to corporal by the end of the war. In the second photograph he is wearing the stripe of a lance-corporal. The divisional shoulder patch is only partially visible but is almost certainly the dragon of the 38th (Welsh) Division.
Stephen William Grist MM also qualified for the 1914-15 Star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. The medal roll for the 1914-15 Star recorded he first entered a theatre of war (France) on 3rd December 1915. He survived the war and was discharged on 12th March 1919.
His date of entry into France matches the dates during which the 38th Division went to France. See:
The 38th Division's engineers were the 123rd; 124th and 151st Field Companies R.E. and the 38th Divisional Signals Company. No individual service record has survived for Stephen William Grist, but the likelihood is that he was serving in the 38th Divisional Signals Company, Royal Engineers.
In the second photograph, the second button of his five-button tunic has been covered in black cloth to indicate he was in mourning for a deceased member of the family. His father, Frederick Grist, had been born about 1854 and the death of a Frederick Grist, aged 64 (born 1854) was recorded at Andover in the first quarter of 1918. The second photograph, then, was probably taken early in 1918 having returned to the UK to attend his father's funeral.
Royal Engineers companies were quite small and consequently their war diaries are often quite detailed. The 38th Divisional Signals Company diary (1915-1919) can be downloaded from the UK National Archives website for £3.30. See:
In the 1911 census a Stephen Grist, British subject born in America, aged 18, was living with his father and step-mother at Andover. The second photograph was taken by Howard and Son of Andover. This would have been Charles Howard and his eldest son Charlie who together ran a Photographer's and Picture Frame Maker's Studio at 81, High Street, Andover.
With kind regards,
Reply from: Tess
Date: Monday 26th January 2015 at 8:27 PM

You've got more in a few hours than I've got over two days.
I am, as ever, excessively grateful to you.
Reply from: Ceri Joseph
Date: Saturday 7th March 2015 at 4:45 PM

Hello, I'm researching information for a friend.
Her father was Stephen Grist's friend.Percy Newman. They worked on the Amman Valley Chronicle together as printers.
They joined the 124th RE at Porthcawl in December 1914.
We have the information but she would like a photograph of Stephen in his uniform.
Please is it possible.
My email is porthcawlmuseum@hotmail .co.uk

Thank you.

Visit our website at porthcawlandthegreatwar.com
Posted by: Jim {Email left}
Location: Belfast
Date: Sunday 25th January 2015 at 4:43 PM
Hi Alan,im trying to help a friend find details of his Grandfathers WW1 record, would you have any info on the following soldier? Id be grateful for any help you could give...IRELAND, WILLIAM

Rank:PrivateService No:201379Date of Death:01/08/1918Age:20Regiment/Service:Seaforth Highlanders 1st/4th Bn. Awards:M M
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 25th January 2015 at 7:10 PM

Dear Jim,
No individual service record has survived for William Ireland so it is not possible to state his military service. An Army medal rolls index card recorded he had the original number 4174 in the Seaforth Highlanders. This was replaced with 201379 when all Territorial soldiers were re-numbered early in 1917. The actual medal rolls showed he served overseas only in the 4th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders. He probably trained with the 2nd/4th Battalion or the 3rd/4th Battalion before being sent overseas to join the 1st/4th Battalion in France. The card recorded he first served in a theatre of war (France) from 10th November 1915.
The 4th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders was sent to France on 7th November 1914 where it joined the 1st Battalion Seaforth Highlanders in the Dehra Dun Brigade of the Meerut Division, which had been sent from India. On 6th November 1915 the 4th Battalion spent a week with the 46th Division before moving to the 46th Infantry Brigade in the 15th Division on November 13th 1915.
It seems likely therefore that William Ireland was part of a draft of Seaforth Highlanders reinforcements that arrived in France on November 10th 1915 and would have proceeded after some days at a base camp to join the 4th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders in the 15th Division.
On 7th January 1916, the 4th Battalion moved to the 154th Infantry (3rd Highland) Brigade in the 51st Division where it then remained until after the Armistice. See:
William's entry in "Soldiers Effects" stated William Ireland died of wounds at 50 Casualty Clearing Station on August 1st 1918. The CWGC Debt of Honour recorded he was aged 20 and was buried in the local commune cemetery at Sezanne, Marne, France. It is likely he was wounded in the Battle of the Tardenois (20 - 31 July 1918) which was part of the Second Battle of the Marne 1918.
Citations for the military medal were not published nationally. The war diary might mention the award. The diaries of the 4th Battalion can be downloaded from the UK National Archives website for a charge of £3.30 for each of two parts. See:
He was the son of James and Agnes Ireland who according to the CWGC lived at 18 Elton Street, Belfast, in 1920.the family possibly were recorded at 56 Crimea Street (Shankhill, Antrim) in the 1901 census.
With kind regards,
Reply from: Jimchelsea
Date: Monday 26th January 2015 at 2:12 PM

Many thanks Alan for your prompt and detailed reply. Jim

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