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Alan Greveson's World War I Forum (Page 24)

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Posted by: Paul Crook {Email left}
Location: Headley Down
Date: Sunday 15th September 2013 at 9:53 PM
Hello again Alan

I have asked before about any records that may exist for a Sidney Crook, my great uncle who was a resident of Rushfrd, Nr Thetford, Norfolk. I have still not been able to definitely prove whether he enlisted or not (I still believe he did but can't be certain). I notice that the Western Front Association now have soldiers Pension Cards that they can search. I have looked up his name on another website that holds pension details so am unsure whether it would be worth enquiring of the WFA as to whether they can find him. Would he have been entitled to a Pension if he had survived the war (as my Sidney Crook) did and would it have been continued if the soldier concerned had emigrated (which Sidney did, to the USA in 1926). I'd love to find out more but am not sure where to go next so any help you can offer would be gratefully received, as always

All the best
Paul
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 16th September 2013 at 11:07 AM

Dear Paul,
The majority of enlisted First World War soldiers did not receive a pension. At the end of the war soldiers completed and signed a form stating whether or not they claimed any disability from having served in the Army.
Those who successfully claimed disablement through wounds (or the widows of those who had been killed or had died) were granted a pension dependant on the percentage of disability that had been incurred. Many soldiers took a lump-sum gratuity instead of pension.
The website that claims to hold "pension records" is ancestry.co.uk which actually has the records of soldiers who no longer qualified for a pension because they were no longer receiving a pension or had died. These were redundant records that were stored at Blackpool by the Ministry of Pensions in the 1940s and so survived the destruction of the London air raids. They were due to be pulped for the war effort on re-cycling paper before someone realised their value as substitutes for the soldiers' documents stored in London which were destroyed or burnt in the Blitz, so they were saved and then moved to the National Archives after the Second World War. Ancestry's "pension records" are usually known as the "unburnt documents" (Catalogue series WO 364 at the National Archives at Kew). They represent some 750,000 individual service records.
The Western Front Association holds an archive of 6.5 million pension record cards (PRCs) which are not available elsewhere. They charge for a manual search of the records. See:
http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/about-the-wfa/175-pension-records/2961-pension-record-cards-manual-lookup-request.html

They will make a partial refund if they cannot find a record.
Kind regards,
Alan




Posted by: Kym {Email left}
Location: Australia
Date: Saturday 14th September 2013 at 1:14 AM
Somehow seem to have lost half my original message in posting :-(
re Boer war records...
After seeing war medals for sale on ebay recently, I now have a hobby trying to trace descendants of medal recipient, using online family trees and just sending them the ebay link, with the thought that they might know a family member who might be interested - nice for medals to end up back in family. Has been fairly easy so far for Australian medal recipients as records are easily accessible on line for service records giving names and next of kin.

Is it possible that Boer War records for British RFA personnel would be available online ?

Thanking you.
Kym
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 14th September 2013 at 12:44 PM

Dear Kym,
The records you need are held at the UK National Archives in London. Some listings have been put online by commercial websites which require subscriptions or the purchase of credits: Ancestry and findmypast.co.uk.. Some medal listings identify a soldier by first-name initial so some cross-referencing of service records and medal records would be required. See also Meurig Jones's website:
http://www.casus-belli.co.uk/
Kind regards,
Alan


Posted by: Kym {Email left}
Location: Australia
Date: Saturday 14th September 2013 at 12:00 AM
Hi,
Am wondering if your could point me in the right direction to locate some information. I have a service no, surname, first initial of member, of I think British RFA, recipient of a Boer War medal and wondering if it might be possible to find records online that give full first name and perhaps next of kin. This info is quite simple to find here with our sites Nominal Rolls and mapping our anzacs.

Regards,
Kym


Posted by: Sally Searle {Email left}
Location: Boscastle Cornwall
Date: Friday 13th September 2013 at 2:54 PM
I would very much like any information about my Grandfather NORMAN GILL BORN 02/06/1890 Keighley Yorkshire . He joined the Royal Engineers - 129 Field Coy. on February 18th 1916 - having previously been a teacher, and stayed in the Royal Engineers until discharge in January 1919.

I know he was awarded the Military Medal, and would love to know what this was for, and where he was posted during the war. I remember him as a gentle quiet man, who would never talk about The War, nor take part in any acts of Remembrance. Many thanks. Sally Searle
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 13th September 2013 at 8:33 PM

Dear Sally,
No individual service record has survived for Norman Gill so it is not possible to state his military service. The 129th Field Company Royal Engineers served in France from August 1915 with the 24th Division. An Army medal rolls index card for Norman Gill, 145458 RE, recorded he was an acting corporal who qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service overseas before December 31st 1915, he did not serve abroad until some date after January 1st 1916, indicating he was part of a later draft of reinforcements.
Citations for the Military Medal were presented with the medal and retained by the soldier. They were rarely published elsewhere although the local newspaper of the day might have published a report on the award. Try Keighley Local Studies Library:
http://www.bradford.gov.uk/bmdc/leisure_and_culture/library_and_information_services/local_and_family_history/local_family_history
The award was often made some months after the event for which it was earned. The official government publication "The London Gazette" recorded one of many lists of Military Medal recipients on May 14th 1919 which included "His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to approve of the award of a Military Medal for bravery in the Field to the under-mentioned Warrant Officers, Non-Commissioned Officers and Men:- "Royal Engineers: 145458 2nd Cpl. (A./Cpl.) Gill, N., 129th Fd. Coy. (Keighley)". You can search the London Gazette online. Select World War One under "historic events" and use his regimental number as the "exact phrase".
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/search
Second Corporal (2nd Cpl.) was a uniquely RE rank which fell between the ranks of Lance Corporal and Corporal. So, Normal was a Second Corporal acting up one rank as an acting corporal which meant he was, for the time being, entitled to the pay and allowances of a corporal.
Although it is not possible to state when Norman Gill went abroad and joined the 129th Field Company the details of the Company's locations are shown at:
http://www.reubique.com/129fc.htm
The engagements of the 24th Division are shown at:
http://www.1914-1918.net/24div.htm
The history of the company was published in 1918 and might be available from antiquarian book-sellers, although it might be hard to find. "A Field Company At Work. The Outcast" by R.E. Carr.
The war diary of the company is held at the National Archives at Kew in Catalogue reference WO 95/2199/3 (01 August 1915 - 30 June 1919). You would have to visit Kew to read it. However, an economical digital copying service is provided by researchers such as:
http://www.arcre.com

Kind regards,
Alan


Posted by: Trevor Purnell {Email left}
Location: Tillington West Sussex
Date: Thursday 12th September 2013 at 10:16 AM
Alan,

I am helping with a village project to commemorate the 100th anniversary of WW1 and those soldiers from our village who were killed in that dreadful war. You have very kindly provided us with excellent information on one soldier, but is there any limit on the number of requests we can make. We are looking for information on fourteen soldiers from the village and you seem to have so much data that would take us months to find. If this number is too many perhaps you could let me know what is possible. We are happy to make a donation to Help for Heroes.

Many thanks for your splendid website and your help.

Trevor
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 12th September 2013 at 6:21 PM

Dear Trevor,
I aim to contribute ten per cent of my professional time to help individuals research their ancestors' service in the First World War through this forum. Researching a large number of individuals for someone else's project does not fall within that charitable purpose. Twenty-nine names of those from Tillington who died have been identified locally. See:
http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Sussex/Tillington.html
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Trevor Purnell
Date: Thursday 12th September 2013 at 10:46 PM

Dear Alan,

Thank you for your reply, I fully understand your position but I hope that you didn't mind me asking the question.

Best Regards,

Trevor
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 13th September 2013 at 9:17 PM

Dear Trevor,
Not at all. And, of course, you're always entitled to cry for help.
Kind regards,
Alan


Posted by: Helping Mum In Law {Email left}
Location: United States
Date: Tuesday 10th September 2013 at 12:36 PM
Hello Alan,
I'm trying to assist my husbands mum, Patricia (Hitchens) Hooper. Her father, Mark John Hitchin apparently served and drove large trucks/vehicles to rescue broken down tanks. She saw a picture of him in a desert type setting in uniform. She remembers that he had scars across his back and had medals that were thrown away. He refused to speak of his service. The information she was given over her life was vague and misleading since he was apparently married before and had a divorce or separation. His first marriage to Amy A Williams in lewisham in July-sep 1931 1d 2887 resulted in two children, James m j hitchin and Sylvia. They would be her half siblings. His second marriage to Judith j Wilkins in 1949 in lewisham 5d 127 occured after a son Michael V Hitchin and Hitchens was born in 1941. I believe the surname spelling change was intentional. Two more children were born-Patricia in 1951 and Mark in 1953. They were only given the spelling of Hitchens. She has no record of her fathers birth and a request using the information she was told of him being born in the first part of 1910 did not yield any findings. He claimed his father was also called Mark Hitchin on his second marriage certificate. She has hit a brick wall and believes the birth year she was told must be completely false. I see online a mark hitchin in ww1 part of the royal engineers transport 2961 Sapper 442380 wo 372/9/213000. I was wondering if it might be her father or possibly her paternal grandfather. Any assistance you can provide will be greatly appreciated.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 10th September 2013 at 8:27 PM

The spelling of surnames was not dependent on the individual family but on the person who recorded the name in their hand-writing, or transcribed the name onto modern indexes. So caution is needed when identifying a name with variable spellings or pronunciation such as Hitchin, Hitchen, Hitchins; Hitchens; Hitching; Hitchings. (Anyone who believes their surname can be spelled only one way is making a mistake. My own surname has at least twenty-two ways of being spelled and there are seven ways of spelling my first name.) The hand-written name Hitchen could be transcribed as Kitchen and the hand-written "Mark" is sometimes transcribed as "Frank". The key identifiers are the person's name (with its variants); date and place of birth, occupation, residence and relatives.
For example, between 1941 and 1951 there were numerous births recorded for any Michael Hitchin whose mother's maiden name was recorded as Wilkins. They were indexed as; Michael Hitchen, Lewisham, 1941 and Michael Hitchens, 1941 (probably the same person): Michael V Hitchen, Lewisham, 1942; then, Michael V Hitchen, Lewisham,1951; Michael V Hitchens, 1951 and Michael V Hitchin 1951 (again, possibly all one person).
It would be necessary to see the original individual birth certificates to identify the mother and, in particular in wartime, the father in each case as both surnames, Hitchin and Wilkins, are frequently occurring names.
Military records would be of no immediate value because they do not always include genealogical information; they are not complete in their survival; and they only record men who actually served in a particular service and therefore searching them would be speculative. It is not possible that a man born about 1910 could have served in the First World War which started four years later, although that person's father may have served; but again you would need to know the father's personal details to identify any surviving documentation.
The starting point for any search would be the death certificate for Mark John Hitchin which would state his age, and his year of birth could then be calculated.
For example, by way of demonstrating the method, the death of a Mark J. Hitchens was registered in October - December 1962, aged 50, at Sidcup in Kent (vol 5b page 833). He would have been born in 1912. A corresponding birth registration might be Mark J. Hitchens, born at West Ham, Essex, July - September 1912 (Vol 4a Page 369); mother's maiden name: Shepardson.
A corresponding marriage for these parents might be Mark Hitchins who married Jane Shepperson, West Ham, Essex, July - September 1911, vol 4a page 375.
In the census of April 1911, a Mark Hitchin, born about 1888, was recorded living with his widowed mother, Kate, at 59 Devonshire Road, Custom House, Victoria Docks, which was part of West Ham. Kate had been born in about 1871 at Kensall Green. A Mark Hitchin, had married at West Ham in April- June 1887 (vol 4a page 173) to a Kate Taylor. Mark Hitchin junior might have been registered at West Ham as Hitchen, Mark, July-September 1888, vol 4a page 182.

In the 1901 Census there was a Mark Hitchen, aged 37, (born about 1864) coal porter, born Danbury Essex, living at 27 Custom Street, West Ham, with his wife Kate, aged 32 (born about 1869). They had five children: Mark, 12; Lilly, 10; John, 8; Kate, 5; and Florence (Florrie) 2; all shown as being born in Canning Town. The birth of this Mark Hitchen had been registered probably as Mark Hitchin at Chelmsford, Essex, October December 1863 (Vol 4a page 169). The 1881 census showed he was the son of John Hitchen, born about 1829, an agricultural labourer of Russell Lane, Danbury, Essex, and his wife Emma.
Having worked backwards, it is possible to write it "forwards" as: John Hitchen born in 1829 had a son called Mark Hitchin born at Danbury in 1863. Mark married Kate Taylor and lived at West Ham where they had five children including a son called Mark who was born at West Ham in 1888. He appears to have married Jane Shepperson, at West Ham, in 1911 and they had a son whose birth was registered as Mark J. Hitchens in 1912. A Mark J Hitchens born in 1912 died in Kent in 1962.

(By way of elimination, there was another Mark Hitchin/ Mark Hitchens (whose father was also Mark) born in 1887 who did serve in the Army from 1901. He appears to have been the son of Mark and Elizabeth Hitchins. He was sent to the North Surrey District School as a "pauper inmate" and from there joined the South Wales Borderers as a boy musician in October 1901, aged fourteen and a half. He was partially disabled during the First World War and then lived in Battersea and appears to have died in 1924 or 1963.).
As you can see, it is not possible to make a positive identification without purchasing the necessary birth, marriage and death certificates. I hope I have pointed you in the right direction.
British birth, marriage and death certificates can be purchased online. See:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Helping Mum In Law
Date: Tuesday 10th September 2013 at 8:44 PM

Alan,

Thank you very much for the information and your time and expertise. . I will certainly pass it along to my mother in law. She was always told her father purposely changed the spelling on his last name and I do believe their first son was recorded/registered all those times as stated above. Is there any information about the royal engineer transport 2916 Sapper 442380 medal card that shows that mark hitchin's service or medals awarded? Thank you again for your generous help and information.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 10th September 2013 at 9:07 PM

There is no biographical information attached to the Medal Index Card for the First World War for Mark Hitchin so it is not possible to further identify him. He qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal and served with the 3rd East Lancashire Field Company Royal Engineers.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Helping Mum In Law
Date: Tuesday 10th September 2013 at 9:15 PM

Thank you again. I will also pass on this information for her consideration.


Posted by: Trevor Purnell {Email left}
Location: Tillington West Sussex
Date: Sunday 8th September 2013 at 12:47 PM
Alan,

I am researching Bombardier Joseph Dummer 32216, Royal Field Artillery. I believe he joined up in 1915 in Leicestershire (perhaps as a Shoeing Smith). He was born in 1875 and also fought in the Boer War. I cannot trace his movements when in the RFA or his discharge from it, so any help would be much appreciated
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 8th September 2013 at 8:25 PM

Dear Trevor,
Joseph Dummer had served the full 21 years' service in the 12th Royal Lancers from 5th April 1893 which means that he would have left the Lancers in April 1914, shortly before the outbreak of war. At the age of 40 he volunteered to serve again and, as his occupation was a farrier, he was offered the post of shoeing smith with the Royal Field Artillery. He enlisted at Leicester on 15th June 1915 and joined the 176th (CLXXVI) Brigade Royal Field Artillery. He was promoted to Corporal shoeing smith on 11th July 1915. The Brigade left Southampton on the night of 8th January 1916 and arrived at Havre the next day. On 3rd February 1916 the 176th Brigade was reorganised as the 8th London Brigade RFA. On 11th March 1916 Joseph was admitted to the 5th London Field Ambulance in France suffering arthritis in his wrist. He was based at La Crosse, East of St Omer, but the 34th Division, in which the Brigade served, was not involved in any major engagement until July 1st 1916. From the field ambulance he was admitted to the 6th Stationary Hospital at Rouen and returned to England on 14th April 1916 having served 98 days in France. He was treated at hospitals in London and came under the administration of the 5 C Reserve Brigade RFA. Joseph was recommended for discharge as no longer physically fit by the 2nd London General Hospital on September 21st 1916. He left the Army for the second time on 5th October 1916. Joseph qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Trevor Purnell
Date: Monday 9th September 2013 at 9:57 AM

Alan,

Many thanks for your wonderful, detailed reply it is much appreciated. As you say Joseph Dummer was 40 when he re-enlisted and I have just received his death certificate. Sadly he died on 5th January 1917 at the age of 41. The cause of death is given as Pulmonary tuberculosis. I believe this disease was often associated with gas inhalation during WW1. Is there any evidence that he may have been near enough the front line to be gassed?

Many thanks and regards,
Trevor
Reply from: Trevor Purnell
Date: Monday 9th September 2013 at 12:00 PM

Alan,

Forgot to mention one thing. When the 176th Brigade was reorganised and Joseph moved into the 8th London Brigade RFA wasn't the 8th London in the 47th Division and not the 34th. I understood that all the other reorganised battalions of the 176th Brigade remained somewhere in the 34th Division with the exception of B battalion which was moved to the 47th Division.

Regards,

Trevor
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 9th September 2013 at 2:02 PM

Dear Trevor,
Joseph definitely moved to 1st/8th London Brigade RFA on 3rd February 1916 and the 1st/8th London Brigade was indeed with the 47th Division. He was admitted to 5th London Field Ambulance on March 11th 1916 and the 5th London Field Ambulance served with the 47th Division. So, yes, you are correct in saying from 3rd February 1916 Joseph was with 47th Division. I apologise for not having made that connection myself. I was aware the brigade was re-designated but not aware they had moved divisions. The 47th Division was in GHQ reserve in February 1916 with training (in the snow) south of St Omer in the Bomy area. In March the 47th Division was moved further south to the Souchez sector north of Arras, and was in the area opposite Vimy from March 16th 1916. To place Joseph any more precisely would require sight of the 8th London Brigade's war diary which is at The National Archives at Kew in catalogue reference WO 95/2718/1 as "238 Brigade RFA" (The 1st/8th London had been re-titled CCXXXVIII Brigade RFA). For prompt, affordable copies of war diary pages see:
http://arcre.com/
Joseph's record makes no mention of gas, although enemy counter-battery fire often included gas shells, so gunners were prone to gas.
Kind regards,
Alan


Posted by: Birdsong {Email left}
Location: Uttoxeter Staffordshire
Date: Friday 6th September 2013 at 8:39 PM
Hello, I wonder if you may be able to help by pointing me in the right direction to research a little about my maternal Grandfather. I have recently discovered limited information as follows:

Name: John Thomas Richards, born 30 January (not sure of year unfortunately). Died 19th December 1964.

I understand that he was a Sergeant Major in the army and fought in the Battle of the Somme. It is my understanding that he sustained injuries but thankfully survived. He came from Bilston in the West Midlands so he was possibly in the South Staffordshire Regiment though I have been unable to confirm this.

He was a lovely man and I have fond memories of him from when I was a child and would really love to find out a little about his service history to share with his two surviving daughters.

Thank you so much in advance for any kind replies.

Norma
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 7th September 2013 at 3:06 PM

Dear Norma,
Unfortunately, it is not possible to identify a soldier from his name only. It is necessary to know his regiment and regimental number to obtain the most basic information. Perhaps other members of the family might know in which regiment he served? Even then, it is possible that no individual service record has survived as most were destroyed by the bombing on London in 1940.
Kind regards,
Alan


Posted by: Steve Boxall {Email left}
Location: Plymouth
Date: Thursday 5th September 2013 at 8:41 PM
I have a collection of medals that are allegedly from a distant relative of mine that no one seems to know. I wonder if you have any details on a CPL B F Leroy, Middx Reg? He served in the Boer War as a private with the Scots Guards.

many thanks in anticipation

steve boxall
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 6th September 2013 at 3:41 PM

Dear Steve,
Cpl B F Leroy was Corporal Bruce Francois [Francis] Leroy who was baptised in London in 1882, the son of Appolinaire Leroy, a French waiter born about 1848, and his wife Annie Hayward Gibbs Churchill, of Southampton born about 1856. Leroy was a French surname meaning "servant of the king" (Le Roi). Appolinaire was the French form of the Italian Apollinare, a name in honour of St Apploniaris, a first century bishop of Ravenna who was martyred under the Emperor Vespasian. Appolinaire and Annie had married in 1875 in London and had thirteen children of which ten survived childhood. The family, then with seven children, lived at Battersea in 1891. Appolinaire was an "officers' mess waiter James Pal", in 1901, which meant he was working at the officers' mess at St James's Palace, which was the home of The Scots Guards.
After leaving school, Bruce became a [house] painter and joined the 1st Battalion The Scots Guards in 1898, fibbing about his age to state he was 18 when he would have been 16. His service record can be seen at the National Archives or on the Findmypast website, which charges for 30 credits required to view four pages. I cannot transcribe the information from that website as it is protected by their copyright.
For details of the 1st Battalion Scots Guards in South Africa see:
http://www.angloboerwar.com/?option=com_content&view=article&id=659
Bruce qualified for the Queen's South Africa Medal with clasps for Belmont, Modder River, Driefontein, Paardeberg and Belfast; as well as the King's South Africa Medal with 1902 clasp. His time with the Scots Guards ended in 1910.
Bruce married on 21st April 1906 at the Register Office, St George Hannover Square, London, to Eva Backshall [hence Boxall, which is a Sussex name, after the vanished hamlet of Boxholte, meaning Box Wood]. Eva had been born in Ordingly, Sussex in 1881 and in 1901 was employed as a lady's-maid to a Royal Artillery officer's wife in Plymouth. Bruce became an engineer's labourer and in 1911 the couple lived at 120 Grosvenor Terrace, Camberwell, S.E.. They had been married five years with no children.
In August 1914, at the outbreak of the First World War, Bruce was a 31 year old engineer. On 31st August 1914 he enlisted in The Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex Regiment) and served with the 6th (Reserve) Battalion at Gillingham until 15th March 1915 when he was posted as a corporal to the 3rd Battalion serving, at the time, in France. He was promoted to sergeant and when the 3rd Battalion sailed from Marseilles for Salonika on 25th October 1915, Bruce returned to England with a knee injury that was not caused by enemy action. He remained in the UK until 7th March 1916 when he was posted to France as a sergeant to the 11th Battalion Middlesex Regiment serving in 36th Infantry Brigade with the 12th Division. The Battalion was in trenches at Loos where the Division had exploded four mines beneath the enemy positions on March 2nd 1916, with the subsequent fighting continuing for some weeks at "Fosse 8" at Loos. The Division went to rest on April 26th 1916 and then moved to the Somme.
On 1st July 1916, the opening day of The Battles of the Somme, the 12th Division was at Hencourt and Millencourt by 10 a.m.. It moved to relieve the 8th Division, at Ovillers-la-Boisselle, during the night of 1st - 2nd July 1916. The Division fought at the Battle of Pozieres (23 July 7 August 1916) before Bruce was returned to the UK on 6th September 1916, wounded, for treatment at the 1st Western General Hospital, Liverpool. He remained in the UK until 19th May 1917when he returned to France. On July 1st 1918 he was transferred as a sergeant to the 725th Labour Company in the Labour Corps where he was appointed an acting Warrant Officer Class I. The Labour Corps employed men who had been wounded or had been medically down-graded after hospital treatment. Bruce returned to the UK in February 1919 and was discharged from the Army in the rank of sergeant on 21 March 1919. He qualified for the 1914-15 Star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. In January/February 1919 he was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal.
Bruce and Eva Leroy lived at Pinner, Harrow. Bruce died on 12th November 1958, aged 76. Eva died at Harrow in 1965, aged 84.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Bella
Date: Tuesday 10th September 2013 at 8:14 AM

Dear Mr. Boxall.

Forgive the intrusion but was reading the ww1 message board on Appolinaire Leroy and Alan's (again) mind of information. Fascinating! 120 Grosvenor Street,Camberwell is still there (google find my street) and also if you are not a member of any of the history sites you can find details of this family on FREE FAMILY HISTORY (Church of latter day Saints) and it will bring up 1911, 1891 and 1881 which is very detailed.

Hope you didn't mind the "4 peneth" (sure that's not right spelling!).

Bella


Posted by: Robin
Location: Llanelli
Date: Wednesday 4th September 2013 at 5:34 PM
Hello!

I am hoping to learn more about Private John Gill (West Yorkshire Regiment) who went to France with the Bradford Pals. I believe he was killed on the first day of the battle of the Somme. His number may be 18/836. Any help would be most gratefully received.

Thanks in advance
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 4th September 2013 at 6:21 PM

Dear Robin,
It is not possible to positively identify who John Gill was from the information that he served in the Bradford Pals (16th, 18th and 20th Battalions The Prince of Wales's Own West Yorkshire Regiment). There were at least 17 men named John Gill who served abroad in the West Yorkshire Regiment in the First World War. The 18th Battalion was sent to Egypt in December 1915 and John Gill 18/836 arrived there on December 22nd 1915. The Battalion moved to France in March 1916 where it served with 93rd Infantry Brigade in the 31st Division. They took part in the attack on Serre on July 1st 1916. John Gill died of wounds on July 1st 1916 and was buried at Euston Road Cemetery, Colincamps. "Soldiers Died in the Great War" (HMSO 1921) stated he was born in Silsden. The 1911 England census recorded four men whose birthplace was Silsden who would have been of age to serve in the war. No individual soldier's service record has survived for John Gill 18/836. His will can be downloaded for a fee of £6 from
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/

Kind regards,
Alan


Posted by: Gill Railton {Email left}
Location: Hull East Yorkshire
Date: Tuesday 3rd September 2013 at 11:47 PM
Hello Alan
I am wondering if you can help me again.
I am trying to find my great uncle Thomas Kingston Born in Hull 19th September 1890 the son of Richard and Mary Ann Kingston.
He disappears after 1901 and I cannot find him on the 1911 Census , or any death , he seems to have just vanished.
I have found a Cpl Thomas Kingston Pt 23290 who served in France and was possible killed 20th July 1915.
Is there any way I can find out if this is my Thomas? and if so can you tell me anything about him.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Gill
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 4th September 2013 at 5:47 PM

Dear Gill,
An army medal rolls index card showed Corporal Thomas Kingston 23290 King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry did not die on 20th July 1915; he went to serve in France on that date. He survived the war and was transferred to the Class P Reserve. As Army medal rolls index cards for soldiers do not provide biographical details they cannot be matched to a person by name only.
Because Thomas Kingston did not appear in the England and Wales 1911 census under that name it would be necessary to search the Scottish and Irish censuses for 1911 and all death records to establish if he were still alive in 1911. Emigration records should also be searched to establish if he had left the country. As he lived in Hull, maritime and naval records would be worthwhile searching.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Gill Railton
Date: Wednesday 18th September 2013 at 4:13 PM

Hello Alan,
Sorry for the delay in replying, but a big thank you for your advice , I now have a few leads to look into and hopefully can find out a bit more about this mysterious man

Best Wishes
Gill


Posted by: Mike Winkett {Email left}
Location: Birmingham
Date: Thursday 29th August 2013 at 2:29 PM
Hello, Alan.

I am wondering whether you can assist me in tracking down WW1 service records for Arthur Nelson Wilcox who was born at 47, The Grove, Ealing, Middlesex on 8th July, 1898. He was baptised on 7th August 1898 in the parish of Osterley St. Mary, Hounslow, the record showing his father was James Edward Wilcox and mother Annie Amelia Wilcox.

1901 and 1911 censuses show he is living with his parents at 49, The Grove, Ealing, Middlesex, his parents being greengrocers and dairymen. No records can be found on Ancestry's website, although his niece has a record of Arthur in uniform wearing a bandolier. The niece remebers that when he was evacuated to his farm in 1940, that in the orchard was a pony/horse, which his niece was told was Arthur's horse from WW1.

The nearest record by name I have come across is for a Thomas Nelson Wilcox and he was also living in Middlesex, but closer family members have no reason to believe Arthur preferred to be known as "Thomas". I hope this isn't the correst record because looking at his papers, Thomas was struck off as a deserter!

Any help you can give in tracking Arthur's WW1 service records down would be most appreciated.

I look forward to hearing from you and thank you.

Best regards,
Mike Winkett
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 29th August 2013 at 7:01 PM

Dear Mike,
All the individual soldiers' service records from the First World War that survived the bombing of the Second World War are on the Ancestry website so if his record is not there then, unfortunately, it hasn't survived. Searching for other military records would require the name of his regiment and regimental number.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Mike Winkett
Date: Friday 30th August 2013 at 9:55 AM

Hello, Alan.

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, Arthur's regiment and regimental number are not known. I assume from your answer that records were only kept centrally in one place and no copies were made and stored elsewhere which sites other than Ancestry may have "tapped" into.

At least it may be possible to determine the regiment he was in by having an expert look at the photo held by Arthur's niece and examining the uniform. He must have been in the mounted section as he was wearing a bandelier for carrying ammunition whilst on horseback. I suppose I was rather "clutching at straws" without knowing his regimental details, but I appreciate your looking at this anyway.

Thanks again, Alan.

Best regards,
Mike Winkett


Posted by: Spangler {Email left}
Location: Northampton
Date: Thursday 29th August 2013 at 12:19 PM
I am trying to trace any information on my uncle, John Robert Buttery born 6th June 1900 in London. He served as a Rifleman number 63787 in the 13th Bn. King's Royal Rifle Corps, and died on the 12th May 1919. He is buried in a war grave in Cologne Southern Cemetary, Germany. I would like to know when he joined the service, and if possible how and where he died. The information I have is that demobilisation had begun for this unit and was completed a week after he died. Did he die on a battle field; in hospital or from injuries sustained in battle; or was he a prisoner of war; or died from other causes?
Any information on him would be appreciated. Thank you
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 29th August 2013 at 3:02 PM

Dear Spangler,
No service record has survived for John Robert Buttery. The allied forces occupied Cologne in December 1918, a month after the Armistice, and the Southern cemetery was used by the Garrison there. There is no medal rolls entry for Rifleman John Buttery 63787 so he probably did not serve in a theatre of war and may have gone abroad after the war ended. As he died on 12th May 1919, he would not have been killed in action and would not have been a prisoner of the Germans. The cause of his death should be recorded on his death certificate which can be ordered from the General Register Office for a fee. It is indexed as John E. (sic) Buttery, King's Royal Rifle Corps, 63787, year 1919, volume I.78 page 555, GRO War Deaths Army Other Ranks (1914 to 1921). See:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Spangler
Date: Thursday 29th August 2013 at 3:53 PM

Thank you, I will try and trace his death certificate, I appreciate your help.


Posted by: Maygo {Email left}
Location: Leicester
Date: Wednesday 28th August 2013 at 7:23 PM
Hi,Alan,
Hope you can help on this one,I am trying too trace any information for,John Herman Jayes who married,Florence Pochin born 1900
Both born Leicestershire,We think in Wigston Magna,After they married they lived on a farm called Highfields which was on Newton Lane,Wigston.
Hope you can help.
Kind Regards,
Maygo
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 29th August 2013 at 12:37 PM

Dear Maygo,
Unfortunately it is not possible to positively identify records for John Jayes.
Kind regards,
Alan


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