Alan Greveson's World War 1 Forum (Page 24)

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Posted by: Michele Bennett {Email left}
Location: Northwich
Date: Thursday 27th February 2014 at 10:32 PM
Dear Alan

I wondered if you could help with some research pointers ... a work colleague dug up two items in his back garden.I was able to find out all about the silver 1913 Drei Mark, it was found with a a Victory Medal. The Victory medal is numbered 3823 Pte J. Johnson. Ches. R. Many thanks
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 28th February 2014 at 11:03 AM

Dear Michele,
The medal was one of two awarded to Private John Johnson of Wincham, Northwich, Cheshire. The Victory Medal was awarded with the British War Medal for service overseas during the First World War. John Johnson was the son of Alfred and Emma Johnson of Wincham Lane, Wincham, Northwich. He went to France with the Cheshire Regiment and then transferred to the 7th Battalion The King's Shropshire Light Infantry which served in the 8th Infantry Brigade in the 3rd Division.The 7th KSLI took part in the opening battle of the Arras Offensive of 1917, at the First Battle of the Scarpe on 9th April 1917 in which Rifleman Johnson, aged 19, was killed. He has no marked grave and is commemorated on the Arras Memorial which is in the Faubourg d'Amiens British Cemetery at Arras.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kath Hayes Johnson
Date: Thursday 24th July 2014 at 8:30 PM

Hi i can hardly believe my eyes at this, john johnson was my uncle we have only just found this out this week as we are doin the family tree, its a sad story as he died at such an early age 19, we have managed to locate a lot of information i put his name john johnson in hoping to find a newspaper article on his death , i would love to know if the lady who has found my uncles medal if she still has it kind regards kath 31 linnards lane wincham cheshire 01565733575
Posted by: Martin {Email left}
Location: Halifax
Date: Thursday 27th February 2014 at 4:27 PM
I am trying to trace information/ service records of my great great grandfather Thomas Norbury (rifleman) of K. R.R's who died in service late June early July 1916. He lived in Featherstone West Yorkshire.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 27th February 2014 at 8:28 PM

Dear Martin,
Thomas Norbury, of 4, Arundel Street, Featherstone, volunteered at Castleford on 10th September 1914. He was a 33-year-old miner, 5ft 7ins tall, with a wife and four children. Being a miner was no bar to enlisting in 1914. He was posted to the depot of the King's Royal Rifle Corps (KRRC) at Winchester from 10th September to 8th October 1914 when he was posted to the newly-raised 13th Battalion KRRC at Winchester. The Battalion trained at Halton Park, Wendover. From November 1914 to April 1915 they were in billets at Amersham and Great Missenden while they continued training. In April 1915 the Battalion moved to Windmill Hill Camp on Salisbury Plain where they formed up with 111th Infantry Brigade in the 37th Division.
The 13th Battalion KRRC moved to France on 30th July 1915. They served on the Western Front and first went into the trenches in August at Le Bizet near Bailleul. By 12th February 1916 they took over trenches near Gastineau at Berles-au-Bois. They were in trench routine: a few days in the trenches alternated with a few days in billets.
They were in trenches opposite Ransart, Pas de Calais, on June 29th 1916, when Rifleman Norbury was shot, receiving a bullet wound in the back and lower spine and was taken to 50th Field Ambulance RAMC. Thomas Norbury died of wounds the next day, June 10th 1916 and was buried in the nearby churchyard extension at Berles-au-Bois. He qualified for the 1914-15 Star, the Victory Medal and the British War Medal.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Martin
Date: Friday 28th February 2014 at 6:15 PM

Thank you very much for this information.
Posted by: Jonboy {Email left}
Location: Harlow
Date: Thursday 27th February 2014 at 4:20 PM
Hi Alan
I am at my wits end on this person who I am researching,i think I have tried just about everything, hopefully you may a answere. I will Donate 2 Flower Baskets to my local British Legion..(( I normaly sell these at sales pitches for £10).
Josephus Dean Born abt 1821 I know he married a Anna Baker on the 26 Feb as I have downloaded the Document it states his Father is Joseph Dean and Annas Father is Jaz Baker. Now strangely next to where the Witness names are there is a Name of Mary Ball in brackets Mother The problem I have is I cant find them both on any Census Records or immigration Records. The only other thing is they had a Son Called Abraham Joseph Deane Born 1839 Died 1889,now I have his Marriage Document as well which seems to tally up with his Father. Please Help. Before I pull anymore Hair out.
Kind Regards
Jonboy
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 27th February 2014 at 11:21 PM

Dear Jonboy,
Josephus Deane married Anna Baker on February 26th 1838 at St Pancras. He was "of full age" (21 plus) and his father was Josephus, a ribbon draper. So, he was born in about 1817. There is no Mary Ann Ball mentioned on his marriage certificate.
A George Dean was baptised in 1818 at Christ Church, City of London, the son of Josephus and Elizabeth Dean, of Angel Street. The father was a ribbon dresser, or draper.
Josephus Dean might be the Joseph Dean born on 26th May 1816 and baptised 23rd June 1816 at St James's Church, Fryern Barnet, the son of Josephus and Elizabeth Dean, a baker.
Mary Ann Ball appeared on the marriage certificate of Abraham Josephus Deane to Mary Ann Bosworth, who was under-age at 18. Mary Ann Bosworth's father was deceased, and therefore her mother, who had probably re-married to Ball, had to give her consent to the marriage.
The record for Abraham Joseph Dean was dealt with on this forum on February 20th.
In 1851, Abraham might be the entry listed on the ancestry website as Abraham Decar who was an 11-year-old boarder with a relative, Ann, aged 6, at the home of a copper plate printer at 3 Bishop Court, Clerkenwell. It is possible their parents had died so it would be better to search for deaths before searching all the censuses. The surname Dean can also be spelled Deane.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Jonboy
Date: Friday 28th February 2014 at 12:41 AM

Hi Alan
Many thanks for that.
Posted by: Jimchelsea {Email left}
Location: Belfast
Date: Thursday 27th February 2014 at 12:22 AM
Hi Alan, My friend is trying to trace a relative from the war as he is putting a folder together of his past family. The only details I have of him are as follows... James Robinson 5/5467 signed up 17.8.1914 . 5th battalion Rir .3.12.1914 was in 2nd battalion and then moved to 5th battalion. Any help would be much appreciated. Cheers mate.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 27th February 2014 at 8:27 PM

Dear Jimchelsea,
James Robinson enlisted in thr 5th Battalion Royal Irish Rifles on 17th August 1914. The 5th Battalion was a training and reserve battalion based at Downpatrick. He was posted as part of a draft of reinforcements to the 2nd Battalion on December 3rd 1914. The 2nd Battalion served with the 7th Infantry Brigade in the 3rd Division. In 1915 they fought at the Winter Operations 1914-15; The First Attack on Bellewaerde (16th June); The Actions at Hooge (July); and The Second Attack on Bellewaerde (25th September). Rifleman Robinson was wounded, probably on September 25th and was returned to the UK on 29th September 1915. He remained in the UK and was discharged through wounds on 21st August 1916. He qualified for the 1914-15 Star, the British war Medal and the Victory medal. He was awarded a silver War Badge for being discharged because of wounds.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Jimchelsea
Date: Thursday 27th February 2014 at 9:52 PM

Again many thanks Alan for your prompt and detailed reply, i shall pass this on to my friend asap.
Posted by: Howard Barkell {Email left}
Location: Lydford Devon
Date: Wednesday 26th February 2014 at 10:40 AM
Dear Alan,
I am researching Harry Binmore Kenner, born Lydford 1884. He served in the Canadian Expeditionary Force, number 48503,with the Veterinary Corps. He won the Military Medal (and Bar?). He was badly affected by his war experiences and never returned to Canada. He died in 1931. Is there any way of finding out any more about his army service, where he served, how he won his medal and the day to day routine of the CVC which would have put him in such positions of danger and potential heroism?
Kind Regards,
Howard
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 26th February 2014 at 5:01 PM

Dear Howard,
Service records of Canadian servicemen have survived intact and are held at The Library and Archives Canada (LAC). You would need to pay a fee for them to prepare a digital copy. The front and back page of his attestation paper are available, free, on the LAC website (indexed as Henry [sic] Binmore Kenner; RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 5095 55; Item Number: 498060). See:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/canadian-expeditionary-force.aspx
The images are also available on the ancestry.com website (subscription required). There appears to be only one entry in the London Gazette for the award of a Military Medal: "His Majesty the King has been graciously pleased to approve of the award of the Military Medal for bravery in the Field to the undermentioned Non-commissioned Officers and Men" there follows a long list which includes: "Canadian Force: 48503 S/Sgt H. B. Kenner A.V.C." (Gazette dated 12th March 1918).
The published lists started with promulgations for the Second Bar, then Bar and then Medal. Citations for the Military Medal were not published in the Gazette. Staff-sergeant Harry Kenner M.M. rose to the rank of Sergeant-Major.
Harry Kenner left the UK in 1911 and sailed to Canada. He enlisted at Montreal on October 19th 1914 and was very quickly sent to England with a party of "veterinary NCOs" arriving at Liverpool on November 16th 1914 (Incoming passenger lists for H. B. Kenner via ancestry.com). He married Alice Christine Lee, known as "Dolly", on September 30th 1918 at Pilton in Devon. He died 26th January 1931 and was buried in the churchyard of Holy Trinity, Barnstaple, on 31st January 1931. His funeral was attended by members of the Barnstaple Branch of the British Legion.
It would seem that Harry Binmore Kenner was related to Captain James Binmore Kenner (1885 1974) who was instrumental in the development of the British phosgene poison-gas production at Calais in the First World War. He had been born at Morpeth, but his father, also James, came from Devonport. James Binmore Kenner was a Doktorant assistant to a professor at Heidelberg University at the outbreak of war. See:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/769688?uid=3738032&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21103532430417
When he died James Kenner was emeritus professor of technological chemistry at Manchester University.
For researching the Canadian Army Veterinary Corps see:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/005/f2/005-1142.29.031-e.pdf
also
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/corpsbranches/veterinarycorps.htm
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Howard Barkell
Date: Wednesday 26th February 2014 at 7:29 PM

Dear Alan,
Thank you for another reply full of useful information and suggestions for further research. I shall have to get stuck into those websites asap.
Howard
Posted by: Kez
Location: Sydney Australia
Date: Wednesday 26th February 2014 at 4:57 AM
Afternoon Alan!
I have come across an ancestor by the name of William Whitsed Coleman Born 1800. I have found he died in 'Garden Reach,' Calcutta India 31.05.1852 I was wondering if he was in the Army.
Could you advise please
Thanks for your time, Cheers Kez
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 26th February 2014 at 5:11 PM

Dear Kez,
It is not possible to identify a man in the army by his name only. Often the second given name was not recorded, or initials only were used, so it would be necessary to identify every William or W.W. Coleman and establish his date of birth and date of death (1852): a rather cumbersome task.
The British interests in India prior to 1857 were managed by the British East India Company which had its own army until the Indian rebellion after which the British Government, through the "Government of India Act 1858", took over the company's Indian possessions, including its armed forces.
Given William Coleman's age at death of 52, it was improbable that he was a soldier because in those days a soldier was considered "worn out", to use the Army's expression, at the age of 40, although Generals such as Gordon of Khartoum could serve at the age of 52. In the days of Empire, the next likely service to be operating in Calcutta was the Merchant Marine. The "Registry of Shipping and Seamen: Register of Seamen's Tickets" in National Archives Catalogue series BT 113, recorded a William Coleman born London 6th August 1800 (BT113/127 Ticket Number: 252812).
William Whitsed Coleman, son of William Edward and Mary Coleman of Craven Street, Shoreditch, London, was born on 6th August 1800 and baptized at St Leonard's Church, Shoreditch, on 12 August 1801. He appears to have been baptised twice: the first occasion at St Giles's Church on August 27th 1800. This may have been a baptism at home if he had been unwell. A dead child could not enter the kingdom of Heaven unless he had been baptised into the church. A private baptism would serve that purpose, but entering the church was symbolised by the baptism ceremony itself being performed in church at the font which was usually symbolically erected adjacent to the entrance of the church.
At the age of sixteen William was apprenticed to Henry Moses of the Stationers' Guild, London, promising not to commit fornication or enter into marriage and not to play cards, dice, or tables where his master "may have any loss" (London, England, Freedom of City, Admission Papers; via ancestry.com).
His wife was called Maria and they lived in the Southampton area of Hampshire, and at Ryde on the Isle of Wight, Hampshire, where they may have had a (failed) business or shop as a provision merchant (London Gazette).
William Whitsed Coleman first went to sea as a steward in 1837 and rose to become a purser from about 1845 with the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company (P&O).
He died at Calcutta from the "effects of the heat" on 31st May 1852, while serving as the purser on the SS "Hindustan".
William's seaman's ticket can be viewed on the Findmypast.co.uk website under William Coleman, born 1800, under Merchant Navy Seamen (20 credits required; pay as you go).
His baptism records and apprenticeship certificate can be viewed on the ancestry.com website (subscription required).
Seamen's tickets record voyages in a code that shows the official number of a ship and the code-number of a port, for example as 1234.56. Interpreting the ship's official number and port requires the abbreviations to be de-coded. See:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-seamen-RGSS-register-abbreviations.htm
Searches for a ship's name and port from its official number can be made at:
http://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnum.php
Further research: P&O records are held at National Maritime Museum's Caird Library at Greenwich. See
http://www.rmg.co.uk/researchers/library/contact
For Merchant Navy research see:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-seamen-registers-1835-1857.htm
and
http://www.rmg.co.uk/researchers/library/research-guides/the-merchant-navy/tracing-people-crewlists-agreements-logs
William's son Alfred (baptised 1831) also became a mariner.
With Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kez
Date: Thursday 27th February 2014 at 2:21 AM

With appreciation Alan! Many thanks kez
Posted by: Eric {Email left}
Location: Birmingham
Date: Tuesday 25th February 2014 at 12:07 PM
Alan

Looking for information on Alfred Oswin (Great Uncle) b 17/01/1890 who served with the Royal Warwicks Reg in WW1. I have found his medal card index which shows his service number as Pte 266537 & Labour Corp 413471. I've checked on Ancestry for any service info but to no avail so any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Eric
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 25th February 2014 at 6:39 PM

Dear Eric,
No individual service record has survived for Alfred Oswin so it is not possible to state his service. An Army medal rolls index card recorded he qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service overseas before December 31st 1915, he did not go overseas until some date after January 1st 1916.
In theory, the details to be impressed on the British War Medal and recorded on the medal card were those of the man when he first entered a theatre of war (Private, Royal Warwickshire, 266537). The regimental number 266537 is a six-digit Territorial Force (TF) number which was allotted by the Royal Warwickshire Regiment in the first weeks of 1917 when all Territorial Force soldiers were re-numbered as part of a rationalisation of the TF regimental number system. The numbers between 265001 and 305000 in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment were allotted to men in the 7th Battalion.
The 7th Battalion was a pre-war, part-time, Territorial battalion with a Headquarters at Coventry. In October 1914, a second battalion was raised for wartime training and reinforcements, numbered the 2nd/7th Battalion. A third battalion, the 3rd/7th, was raised in May 1915, to provide reinforcements to the 1st and 2nd/7th.
The 1st/7th Battalion served in France from March 1915. The 2nd/7th provided reinforcements to the 1st/7th and then served in its own right as a battalion in France from May 1916. The third battalion remained in England.
Had Alfred Oswin served in France before the regimental number 266537 had been allotted, his medal card should have shown his previous four-digit TF number. Therefore, there is an indication that he did not go overseas until after the number had been allotted early in 1917. He could therefore have been intended as part of a draft of reinforcements for either the 1st/7th or the 2nd/7th Battalion in 1917 or 1918. Once reinforcements arrived in France, they spent a week or two at a Base Depot to have the "offensive spirit" inculcated. At the Base Depot men could be transferred to any regiment in need of casualty replacements, not always their own regiment. Men could arrive in France with a Warwickshire cap badge, but be sent to the Front to join a different regiment two weeks later.
So, while the index card provides some clues it does not provide any evidence of where Alfred served, or when he was transferred to the Labour Corps.
One source of information might have survived had Alfred applied for a pension. The Western Front Association holds an archive of 6.5 million pension record cards (PRCs) which are not available elsewhere. They charge for a manual search of the records. See:
http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/about-the-wfa/175-pension-records/2961-pension-record-cards-manual-lookup-request.html

With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Eric
Date: Tuesday 25th February 2014 at 6:56 PM

Hi Alan

Genius, absolute genius.

Thanks for the info

Kind Regards

Eric
Reply from: Eric
Date: Monday 10th March 2014 at 8:39 PM

I've since found out that Alfred Oswin has a surviving son (91). I have spoken to him about this information and he has no recollection of his father ever having spoken to him about being in the Army. I may have incorrectly assumed that the Medal Card Index that I found belonged to Alfred & I can find no records of another Alfred Oswin being born in 1890. As no individual service record has survived for Alfred Oswin is there any way that we can confirm that this Medal Card Index does belong to the Alfred Oswin that was born 17/01/1890.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 10th March 2014 at 9:14 PM

Dear Eric,
So often it is said soldiers "never spoke about the war", so it is possible Alfred Oswin was among them.
Medal Index cards do not provide any biographical information, other than in the case of applications for medals where the correspondence address was recorded. One other route might be to search the Absent Voters Lists (AVL) for 1918 which, where they have survived, indicated military service through the right to a postal vote. The registers were often compiled separately from the normal electoral registers. The survival rate of the AVL registers is thin. See:
http://www.1914-1918.net/soldiers/avl.html
The Coventry electoral register has naval and military voters (N or M) in the main register, but no unit details. However, it might show M for military service.
The 1911 England census recorded three men named Alfred Oswin with no middle initial, who would have been of military age in 1914.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Julian
Date: Sunday 13th April 2014 at 12:56 PM

Dear Eric,
I have just bought a collection of old picture frames, but in amongst them was a mounted certificate. This is for Private Alfred James Oswin from the Royal Warwickshire Regiment. The certificate goes on to say that he "Served with honour and was disabled in the Great War. Honourably discharged on 19th December 1917". Do you think that this is the same person? Let me know what you think?
Julian
Reply from: Eric
Date: Sunday 13th April 2014 at 7:17 PM

Dear Julian

Thank you for the information re Alfred James Oswin; it's very much appreciated. Unfortunately my Alfred Oswin has no middle name but does the certificate show a Regiment number?

Eric
Reply from: Julian
Date: Monday 14th April 2014 at 3:45 PM

Dear Eric,
That's a coincidence having two Alfred Oswins at the same time. The certificate has "No 26951" at the start of the handwritten text. Is this what you mean?
Julian
Reply from: Eric
Date: Monday 14th April 2014 at 5:58 PM

Dear Julian

There were a number of Alfred Oswins in Coventry at the early part of the 20th Century. Some had a middle name and there were, I believe , three who did not have a middle name; one of the latter being a relation of mine. The Alfred James Oswin that you are talking about was born in 1895 in Coventry and served with the Royal Warwicks in WW1, his Regimental No was 26951 as shown on the certificate that you have. As I live in Birmingham I am more than happy to try to find his ancestors if you would like the certificate passed on to them.
Eric
Reply from: Julian
Date: Monday 14th April 2014 at 7:14 PM

Dear Eric,
We would like to see if we can get this certificated back to his descendants. That would be a fitting end to this search. If you have any luck finding his relatives that would be great.
Good luck with your search.
Julian
Reply from: Eric
Date: Monday 14th April 2014 at 7:36 PM

Dear Julian

Leave it with me & I'll see what I can find out. Are you prepared to let me know what is actually printed on the certificate?

Eric
Reply from: Eric
Date: Friday 25th April 2014 at 5:04 PM

Dear Julian

I'm in touch with Alfred James Oswin's relatives will let you know the outcome

Eric
Reply from: Eric
Date: Monday 28th April 2014 at 8:31 AM

Dear Julian

I have located a 1st cousin of Alfred James Oswin in Bedfordshire through Ancestry. Not sure if you have access to this but if you would like to send me your email address I will gladly pass it on. Mine is (ewgough at live dot com)
Eric
Reply from: Eric
Date: Wednesday 7th May 2014 at 2:15 PM

Alan
I passed on some info to Julian but have not received a reply. Do you have contact with him at all?

Eric
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 7th May 2014 at 3:00 PM

Dear Eric,
Only the website manager has access to e-mail addresses. You can ask the editor to pass on your e-mail address to Julian. All e-mail addresses are protected by the Data Protection Act and so Julian's cannot be passed to you. You can make the request by using the "contact editor" tab in the blue bar at the bottom of this page.
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Trisha
Location: Kingsley Hampshire
Date: Monday 24th February 2014 at 5:00 PM
Dear Alan,

I have been given your name as I'm trying to find out where my grandfather was based in France. His name is William Parker, Reg. No. 132061 and I think he was a farrier in the Royal Field Artillery.
Any suggestions.
Thanks.
Trisha
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 24th February 2014 at 10:07 PM

Dear Trisha,
Unfortunately, it is not possible to say where William Parker served in France as his record does not show in which unit or units he served while overseas. He volunteered for deferred enlistment on 7th December 1915 was called-up for training at No 7 Reserve Brigade at Winchester on 29th February 1916. He went to France on 14th July 1916 and returned to England on 12th January 1918 where he was posted to No 40 Reserve Brigade at Bulford. He may or may not have returned to France. He was discharged from the dispersal camp at Ripon on 9th February 1919 where he stated he had served in 504 Battery. This battery formed part of 65th Army Field Artillery Brigade RFA which moved around under the command of Army level, not divisional level, so it is not possible to state where they were at any one time without seeing their war diary at The National Archives at Kew (Catalogue reference WO 95/455). It is not known whether William served in more than one battery or when William served with 504th Battery as there are no dates of postings in his record, so it is still not possible to state where he was throughout his time in France.
With kind regards,
Alan
Posted by: Phil Steadman {Email left}
Location: Worksop
Date: Monday 24th February 2014 at 3:28 PM
Dear Alan,
Can you please supply any information on Private 2442 Charles George Steadman 1st Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment who was killed 27 October 1914.
He is buried in the Strand Cemetery, Belgium.

Kind regards,
Phil.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 24th February 2014 at 8:53 PM

Dear Phil,
No individual service record has survived for Charles George Steadman so it is not possible to say when he enlisted. An Army medal rolls index card recorded he went to France on 22nd August 1914 with the Royal Warwickshire Regiment and qualified for the 1914 Star with Mons clasp; The British War Medal and the Victory Medal. He was Killed in Action. "Soldiers Died in the Great War" (HMSO 1921) stated he was born at Worcester and enlisted at Warwick. He was killed on 27th October 1914 while serving with the 1st Battalion the Royal Warwickshire Regiment.
He appears to have been William's brother as the birth in Worcester was registered in 1895 and a Charles Steadman (son of William and Priscilla) had an older brother at Lodge Road, Birmingham in the 1901 census. The 1st Battalion Royal Warwickshire was a regular army battalion, so Charles would have enlisted before the war.
The 1st Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment served with the 10th Infantry Brigade in the 4th Division. They were mobilised at 7.05 p.m. on August 4th 1914, but had been in the "precautionary period" from July 29th and had moved from Shorncliffe to Sheerness. On August 8th the Battalion started a move by train to York where it spent some days billeted in the grandstand of York Race Course before moving into Strensall Camp just outside the city. They left York for Harrow Weald on August 16th and three days later entrained for Southampton. The Battalion sailed for France on SS "Caledonia" arriving at Boulogne at 8.30 p.m.. They then spent the night of 22nd August 1914 on board ship, disembarking at Boulogne of 23rd August, and almost immediately took part in the Battle of Le Cateau (29th August 1st September 1914); The Battle of the Marne (7th 10th September); The Battle of the Aisne (12th 15th September) and The Battle of Messines (12th October 2nd November 1914).
On October 27th 1914 the battalion was in trenches at Houplines, France. The day saw exchanges of fire and there was heavy sniping. The Battalion's war diary stated: "The enemy shelled C and D Companies' trenches and sniped continuously and opened with maxims on them. Our guns shelled trenches and houses in the vicinity. 6 killed, 15 wounded all casualties of enfilade fire".
Charles would have been buried locally. His grave was moved to Strand Cemetery after the war as he is now buried in Plot V II which was made after the Armistice, when graves were brought in from some small cemeteries and from the battlefields lying mainly between Wytschaete and Armentieres.
The war diary of the 1st Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment can be downloaded from the National Archives for a small fee. It is Catalogue reference WO/95/1484. See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=C14053080
The war artist Bruce Bairnsfather served in the 1st Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment from 29th November 1914.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Phil Steadman
Date: Tuesday 25th February 2014 at 12:20 PM

Dear Alan,

Thank you yet again for a very informative reply it was very helpful indeed.

Very best regards,
Phil
Reply from: Smartsusan
Date: Friday 18th July 2014 at 7:40 AM

Hi Phil,

I have just come across your post.
I am researching the Steadman family. My grandmother was Anne Marie Steadman, the sister of Charles George. I would be interests to know your relationship within the family, and whether or not you would be interested in sharing any information that we have.

Kind regards,
Sue
Reply from: Phil Steadman
Date: Friday 18th July 2014 at 6:38 PM

Hello Sue,
Always very good to hear from a fellow family researcher, I would be more than pleased to share information with you, here is a start and apologies for any repeats of info you already have.
My great grandfather William Steadman married Susannah Rubery 14 Dec 1856 at Pensnett Parish Church (Brierley Hill) Staffordshire.
My research shows they had eleven children, their fifth child William Henry Steadman your great grandfather b.17 Oct 1862 Stourbridge Worcestershire (he was one of the older brothers of my grandmother Patience Steadman, ther eigth child) William Henry married Mary Ann Johnson 3 Dec 1882 at Ellesmere Port, Cheshire. I think they had seven children - Agnes Rose, William, Alfred Henry, Ann Marie your grandmother b. 3 Jan 1890 at E.P, (who I am sure you know married John A Billington) Joseph Richard, Charles George and Albert Steadman.
The Steadman family had migrated from the West Midlands via North Wales to Ellesmere Port, Cheshire by the time of William Henry and Mary`s marriage in 1882, and I am almost certain the were the first Steadman couple to marry at Christchurch, E.P.

Where do I fit in you ask ? Patience Steadman my grandmother b. 28 Sept 1874, Staffordshire along with here none identical twin Abraham Isaac Steadman. She married James Curran a shomaker (same as her dad) at Little Stanney (not far from E.P) 30 Oct 1894.
By 1901 they had split up Patience had moved to Barnsley, South Yorkshire where she lived with my grandfather to be - George Ellis Oldfield, they had two children, my father Irvin Steadman b. 1902 and his sister Renee in 1911. Research shows that my dad and sis may have a half bro and sis to their mums first marriage and probably never new of them, very sad.
As to why I am still named Steadman and not Oldfield thats another chapter - thanks to Patience.
Best regards (philip.steadman at btinternet dot com)
Questions welcome.
Reply from: Smartsusan
Date: Wednesday 30th July 2014 at 5:34 PM

Hello Phillip,
Thank you for your reply, and I must apologise for the delay in replying.
I must confess that I did know most of the info about my side of the family, but it was very interesting to hear about your side of things.
As far as I know, my great-uncle William did not marry, but I can't confirm that. If you have any information to the contrary I would be interested to hear it.
Last year my husband & I went to Ypres to the Menin Gate and saw the inscription for William. We also visited the grave of Charles. I have recently been finding out about Joseph, who died in 1917. I do know that he was married, and I have a photo of him and his wife Ethel May. I also have photos of my grandmother Ann, and her sister Agnes when they young women, as well as a Menin Gate inscription photo and one of Charles's grave. I would be happy to e mail these to you if you would like to see them. Do you have any family photos that I could see ?

My Grandmother Ann married John Arrowsmith Billington, and they had eight children, four boys and four girls. My Father Louis William was the second son, born in 1913.

I am finding the family history really interesting, and it's good to know that there is another family member looking at it too. ( I haven't worked out what our relationship is yet ! )

Hopefully I will hear from you again.
Best wishes,
Sue
Reply from: Phil Steadman
Date: Friday 1st August 2014 at 11:42 AM

Hello Sue,
As far as your great uncle William is concerned, I think like yourself that he was never married. William b.1886 E.P would have been 18 yrs old in 1904 and I know from the medal list of The Royal Warwickshire Regiment that he qualified for the India General Service Medal and clasp for his service with that regiment at the action near Matta Mughal Khel, North West Frontier 24 April 1908 and confirmed by his CO at Peshawar April 1909.
Terms of enlistment for the Warwickshires was 12yrs, 8 with the colours and 4 in reserve. I can`t find him in the 1911 census in India with the regiment, as confirmed by Alan Greveson therfore he was probably in transit somewhere - so 8yrs from 1911, may have joined up on his 17th birthday 1903.
If he did marry it would be between the years 1912 - 1915, the regiment arrived back in the UK 1912.

Thats interesting about Joseph Richard, I hit a bit of a problem with him and could not finish my write up for him.
The CWGC confirms he died in Nov 1917, the son of Alfred Steadman ? or am I on the wrong track is there a mistake somewhere ?

Just to complicate matters there is a good photo of Alfred Steadman b1891 E.P. in the De Ruvigny`s Roll of Honour 1914-18 Vol 2 page 283. He was the fourth child of Alfred Steadman b.1858, William Henry`s older brother.

Yes the Menin Gate is a moving experience. Ypres and the surrounding battlefields play a very significant part in our family history, they must not be forgotten.

I am very sorry to say I have no early Steadman photo`s for you, I wish I had, I don`t even have one of my grandma Patience Steadman.

You can contact me via my email address.
Best Regards,
Phil.
Posted by: Helen {Email left}
Location: Kingsley Bordon
Date: Sunday 23rd February 2014 at 2:15 PM
Dear Alan

I have another man on our Roll of Honour in All Saints Church, Kingsley, who I cannot trace .
His name was Ernest Moody and he died in 1916.
Any thing you could find out about him would be much appreciated.

Best wishes

Helen
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 23rd February 2014 at 8:10 PM

Dear Helen,
It is not possible to identify a serviceman by name only. It would be necessary to establish that the name on the memorial is correct and that the memorial is to the dead and not to all those who served. Memorials were usually created by committees, and their paperwork might have survived in parish or county records.
The CWGC Debt of Honour lists four men who were named E. Moody who died in 1916. Two were named Edward Moody. Of the other two, one was E. C. Moody of HMS "Conquest" who was buried at Walton-on-the-Naze. The other was a Canadian soldier, named Ernest Moody who was buried in France. The GRO England and Wales civil deaths index listed two men named Ernest Moody who died in 1916. One was Ernest W. Moody whose death was registered at Southampton district Jan-March 1916, aged 38, (Vol 2C page 66). The other was Ernest C. Moody whose death was registered at Tendring, Essex, Apr-June 1916 (Vol 4A page 732). The GRO War Deaths index lists only Ernest C. Moody of HMS "Conquest" (GRO war deaths Royal Navy, Vol RN, 1916, page 2761).
"Soldiers Died in the Great War" (HMSO 1921) lists four soldiers named Ernest Moody but none of them died in 1916. The entries for Ernest C. Moody in the GRO war and civil deaths indices appear to be for the same man. So, there are three possible candidates: Ernest C. Moody and Ernest W. Moody and the Canadian soldier.
The CWGC entry for Ernest C. Moody is partially incorrect as it suggests his widow re-married. In fact, his widow was Katie Elizabeth Moody (née Haddaway) whom he had married at Thanet in Kent in 1908. She lived at Gillingham in Kent in 1911. Tendring registration district covered Harwich. The sailors from HMS "Conquest" who died in March 1916 were killed when a cutter from the "Conquest" was caught in a freak squall in Harwich Harbour. Ernest Charles Moody, born Canterbury, Kent, 6th October 1887, was a Yeoman of Signals, official number 227212 (ADM 188/401/227212).
Ernest W. Moody was aged 38 when he died in 1916, suggesting a birth year of about 1878. You would need to see his death certificate to further identify him. An Ernest Walter Moody, born in Yorkshire in 1878 was recorded in the 1911 England census at 45 Canton Street, Southampton, with his wife (Adelphi Gertrude née Tiplady; married at York in 1901). His death registration is indexed as GRO Deaths, Southampton, Jan-Mar 1916, Vol 2C, page 66.
Ernest Moody of Port Kells, British Columbia, Private 628245, of 47th Battalion Canadian Infantry, enlisted on November 3rd 1915 at New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada, and stated he was the son of Sarah Moody, of "Westwood", Rowledge, Surrey. He had been born on 9th December 1893 at Half Way House, Longstock Road, Longstock, Stockbridge, Hampshire.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Helen
Date: Tuesday 25th February 2014 at 2:41 PM

Dear Alan

Thank you again for so much information.
I'm going to assume the Ernest Moody I'm researching is the Canadian one, formerly from Hampshire.

Best wishes

Helen

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