Alan Greveson's World War 1 Forum (Page 24)

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Posted by: Julie {Email left}
Location: Totneswww Devon
Date: Wednesday 19th February 2014 at 9:29 PM
Can anyone help me with a question which has puzzled me for years. My grandfather - Thomas Hiram Hext and his brother - Harry Edward Hext, were the only two sons of my great grandparents who formed a substantial farm before, during and after worlld war 1. Both brothers worked on the farm. My grandfather would have been 30 in 1916 and his brother approximately 25. Would they both have been conscripted? The story goes that papers were sent to the younger brother, who refused to go, and my grandfather went in his place. Would this be right.
Can any records be Found for my grandfather?
Julie
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 19th February 2014 at 11:51 PM

Dear Julie,
In the 1911 census of England Thomas Gardener Hext, age 49, was a farmer at Holwell Farm, Aveton Gifford, Kingsbridge, Devon. He lived there with his wife and four children. His eldest son was Thomas Hiram Hext aged 24 and his second son, Edward, was aged 18. Both sons worked on the farm. On August 15th 1915 a national census took place on National Registration Day when all adults between the ages of 15 and 65 had to provide details about their name, age, nationality, marital status and employment details. This was aimed at establishing an efficient workforce to support the war effort but there was a secondary agenda which was to identify men of military age in anticipation of compulsory military service for those aged over 18 and who had not yet attained the age of 41. Under- 18s had to state when their 18th birthday would fall. The men's details were abstracted from the registration forms and copied onto pink forms which were then marked with a star if the man's job was considered essential for the war effort. The "starred jobs" ranged from bakers to dustbin men as well as men with specialist skills or employed in essential manufacturing. The registration forms also identified women who could be employed to replace men of military age in munitions and other work. Farmers were not necessarily exempt, because women could replace farm workers. Once conscription was enforced in March 1916, if a man objected to being conscripted, or a father objected to losing his son from the farm, a local tribunal would hear the appeal for a special exemption.
Alongside the anticipation and controversy of compulsory service, from October to December 1915, Lord Derby promoted the Derby Scheme of deferred enlistment which allowed men to "volunteer now and serve later when called-up". These men enlisted as volunteers and were sent home on the day they had enlisted to await call-up when required. This allowed men to commit themselves voluntarily to the fight on paper without waiting for compulsory service to snare them.
Military records from the First World War are incomplete. In the case of Harry Edward Hext, born 1892, he might have been referred to in records as Edward or Harry, or Harry Edward. There appears to be no obvious record for Harry Edward Hext serving in the Army.
Thomas Hiram Hext of Holwell Farm, identified by his address and his father, Thomas Gardener Hext, being his next of kin, did join the Army and had volunteered for deferred enlistment on December 1st 1915 under the Derby Scheme, just two weeks before the final deadline for volunteering.
Farmer Hext's eldest son, Thomas, went to war.
He enlisted, aged 29 and seven months, under the Derby Scheme and was attested at No 3 Depot (Heavy and Siege Batteries), Royal Garrison Artillery, at Plymouth on December 1st 1915. He returned home and was called-up for active service on 15th March 1916 as Gunner 65308 Hext T. H., at No 3 Depot, Royal Garrison Artillery (RGA). On 6th April 1916 he was posted to No. 41 Company RGA Western Section (Plymouth) South Western Coast Defences before being sent overseas on 22nd September 1916 with 168th Siege Battery RGA. It is not clear where he served overseas but he was mildly wounded in the back on 19th August 1917 and then he was sent home for treatment for sickness on 30 November 1917. He went overseas again, to France, on 29 March 1918 and served with 18 Siege Battery RGA which had two 12" railway howitzers. He returned to the UK on 3rd February 1919 and was discharged from the Army a month later.
His rather burnt and waterlogged service record is available on the ancestry.co.uk website (subscription required). Your local library might offer free access to the ancestry website.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Julie
Date: Thursday 20th February 2014 at 8:19 AM

Hi Alan,
Thanks very much for the information. I find it all very interesting. It must be fascinating for you looking up all the individual records for people who were so brave, and you must get a lot of satisfaction helping people answer questions that have been unanswered for a long time.
Thanks once again.
Julie
Posted by: Helenlink {Email left}
Location: Australia
Date: Wednesday 19th February 2014 at 6:20 AM
Reasearching my great Uncle Wilfred J Bastin(he wasn't killed).

Born about 1885 Altofts, Yorkshire. He was a coal miner.
I have his medal Card, but need some help decifering.

He went to war 13/4/1915

He was a private, 1. Yorks Light Infintry Reg No. 499
2. M.G.C " 131258
3. 5th K.O.Y.L.I " 1499

I understand he joined up early on, maybe around 1909, in the Territorial Force, meaning for home defence only.
But how do I find out when he joined the M.G.C. , & would he have had to come back to England to train?
How do you find out where he was during the battles, ie would he have been assigned to a brigade/battalion? Can you tell me anything by looking at the Reg number 131258?
Also, when did he transfer to the 5th KOYLI?

A bit more information. He did receive 4 medals
Roll page
Victory mgc/101B81 6418
British do do
Star mgc /11c or e ? 1312
T Eff A.O.178 s or of? 1919

Look forward to hearing back.
Helen(nee Bastin)
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 19th February 2014 at 6:52 PM

Dear Helen,
No individual service record has survived for Wilfred Bastin so it is not possible to suggest his wartime service. The medal rolls index card does not provide definitive information. The card showed he first went abroad to France (1) on 13th April 1915 with the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry. It does not state the battalion but marks the entry with an asterisk to show the Victory and British War Medal should have been inscribed with Yorks L.I. His regimental number was 499.
At some stage he transferred to the Machine Gun Corps.
In 1919 he was awarded the Territorial Efficiency Medal for long service. The medal was to be issued with the regimental number 1499 in the 5th Battalion KOYLI.
The 4th and the 5th Battalions KOYLI (Territorial Force) both arrived in France on 13th April 1915 with 49th Division, so he could have served with either battalion. The men of these two battalions were all allotted new regimental numbers in the first few weeks of 1917. The numbers were from 200001 to 265000 and replaced the old numbers. As Wilfred did not appear to have one of those new numbers he would have left the KOYLI before March 1917 when the numbers had been changed.
It is not possible to say where or when he joined the Machine Gun Corps which was formed in October 1915 and had schools in both France and England.
The actual Medal Roll for the 1914-15 Star, which is held at the UK National Archives at Kew, might record which battalion of the KOYLI he was serving in when he first went abroad.
The card showed his Territorial Efficiency Medal was authorised in 1919 with the regimental number 1499 in the 5th Battalion KOYLI. That might have been a clerical error as the medal might have been claimed as 499 5th Battalion KOYLI, suggesting Wilfred had served in the 5th Battalion. The Territorial Efficiency medal was awarded for 12 years' service, with war service counting double so he probably enlisted in about 1910.
See also:
http://www.machine-gun-corps-database.co.uk/intro_page.html
and
http://www.machineguncorps.co.uk/research.html

With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Helenlink
Date: Thursday 20th February 2014 at 6:04 AM

Alan,

re Wilfred James Bastin

Only have access to the British Medal & it has 499 Pte W J Bastin K.O.L.Y.I

Does that provide any clues?

Thanks for your help

Helen
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 20th February 2014 at 9:47 AM

Dear Helen,
I'm afraid it doesn't. It simply confirms he first went abroad with the KOYLI.
Alan
Posted by: David
Location: Cambridgeshire
Date: Tuesday 18th February 2014 at 10:52 AM
Hello Alan
I am trying to find any information I can about my Grandfather, family stories tell of him being wounded and discharged from the army, his name is John William Day, he was in the 9th Battalion Norfolk Regiment, his service number was 15703.
We have no idea when he enlisted but my brother has his medals which include a 1914-15 Star, we would like to know where and when he received his wounds, I would be grateful for any help you could give me thank you

Yours Sincerely David
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 18th February 2014 at 8:41 PM

Dear David,
It is not possible to state exactly where a man was wounded as that amount of detail was rarely recorded. However, from surviving information and details of events at the time it is possible to suggest the area in which a soldier was at the time.
John William Day stated he was born on Christmas Day 1894. He enlisted at Norwich on September 10th 1914 at the age of 19, at the height of the recruitment drive to create a citizen's army: Kitchener's New Army. He joined the 9th Battalion The Norfolk Regiment when it was formed at Norwich. The Battalion move to train at Shoreham, Kent, where it formed-up with the 71st Infantry Brigade in the 24th Division. They moved from Shoreham to billets at Brighton in January 1915 and returned to Shoreham in February. In March 1915 they moved to Blackdown, Aldershot. The Battalion went to France on the night of 29th/30th August 1915 and shortly afterwards fought at The Battle of Loos on 26th September 1915 despite having been in France for only three weeks. On 11th October 1915, the 71st Infantry Brigade transferred to the 6th Division.
The 6th Division fought on the Somme in 1916 at The Battle of Flers-Courcelette; The Battle of Morval and The Battle of Le Transloy. In 1917 they fought at The Battle of Hill 70 (August, in the Loos sector) and The Cambrai operations (20 November - 30 December 1917).
Pte John Day was shot in the ankle (which one was not stated) on 2nd October 1917 and was taken to hospital in France with a "severe" wound. He returned to the U.K. by hospital ship on 13th October 1917 and was treated at 5th Northern General Hospital at Leicester. He was discharged as no longer physically for war service on 6th May 1918.
The date he was wounded does not match the date of a major engagement for the Division, but his Battalion lost ten men killed on 2nd October 1917, so they were obviously in action even if they remained in the trenches. The numbers are suggestive of a night-time trench raid into the enemy lines. The Division was in the Loos Sector on October 2nd 1917 in the area around Les Brebis North-west of Grenay and Maroc in the Loos sector.
The 9th Battalion Norfolk Regiment war diary would record a specific location and events for the battalion on October 2nd 1917. It is held at The National Archives at Kew in catalogue reference WO 95/1623, but it is not yet available online. Perhaps the Regimental Museum could help. See:
http://www.rnrm.org.uk/html/contact.html
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: David
Date: Saturday 22nd February 2014 at 5:10 PM

Dear Alan
Many thanks for the information you gave me regarding my grandfather it is very much appreciated
yours Sincerely
David
Posted by: Dede {Email left}
Location: Hull
Date: Tuesday 18th February 2014 at 10:44 AM
Morning Alan,
Wonder if you could fill me in with any more details. I am looking for more info on a Gt.Uncle who died WW1.
He was George Davis Walker, Pvt in Border Regiment Service No. 12856 died 26 August 1915 & memorial grave Ridge Wood Military Cemetery.
Thankyou
dede
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 18th February 2014 at 8:48 PM

Dear Dede,
The soldier identified by the CWGC Debt of Honour as G. D. Walker, 12856 Border Regiment was recorded in "Soldiers Died in the Great War" (HMSO 1921) as George Downham Walker of Troutbeck, Cumberland. The GRO recorded the birth of George Downham Walker as Walker, George Downham, Kendal, Westmorland, Jan-Mar 1895 Vol 10B page 728. Both "Soldiers Died in the Great War" (SDGW) and an Army medal rolls index card recorded that he had "died" (as opposed to being "killed in action" or "died of wounds") meaning his death was caused other than by enemy action; perhaps accident or illness. The CWGC and SDGW stated the date of death was 26th August 1915. The medal index card stated he died on 21st August 1915.
He had first entered France on 24th July 1915 and served with the 7th Battalion The Border Regiment.
The casualty returns of the 7th Bn Border Regiment for August 1915 stated: "12856 Pte Walker J.D. [sic] 26.8.15 died of fever" (National Archives WO/95/2008 War Diary, Appendix 2, August 1915, "Battle Casualties from Embarkation to 31st August 1915").
His death certificate might state the cause of death, or it might state simply "while on active service". It can be ordered from the GRO in the usual way as Walker, George D, Border Regiment, Private, 12856, 1915 Volume I.16 Page 312 (GRO War Deaths Army Other Ranks (1914 to 1921)).
On August 26th 1915, the battalion had been involved only in training and static trench instruction, with billets at Reninghelst, South-west of Ypres, since arriving in France in July.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Dede
Date: Tuesday 18th February 2014 at 9:59 PM

Thank you so Much Alan. Alas, it wasn't my GD Walker so sorry you went to all this trouble. You really are brilliant & so quick with your replies.
Regards dede
Posted by: Bella
Location: Esher
Date: Tuesday 18th February 2014 at 9:01 AM
Dear Alan,

Firstly, just hope you haven't been involved in these awful floods. Secondly, could you possibly help with Clara Johnson born Horton Kirby, Kent 22nd April 1864. Daughter of James and Jane Johnson. Not having much luck finding out wether or not she married and when she died.

Any light you are able to shed will be much appreciated.

With kind regards.

Bella
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 18th February 2014 at 8:30 PM

Dear Bella,
There is insufficient detail to search online for a name as frequently occurring as Clara Johnson after the 1911 census. Clara appears in the census of 1881 to 1901 as a servant and in 1911 was indexed as Clara Jemson, aged 46, single, domestic servant, at Mere in Wiltshire. The transcript is an error as the actual household schedule has her name as Clara Johnson. As there is no later census available, it would be cumbersome to search online for a marriage or death without knowing where or when. Even if she did not marry there are 50 deaths after 1911 of women named Clara Johnson born 1864 plus or minus two years. There was one death recorded in Bridge, Kent, in 1949 which would be worth further consideration, but beyond 1911 you really need to see the original certificates and results become restricted using a desktop search.
With kind regards,
Alan

Thank you for your concern about the floods, fortunately I live on high ground.
Reply from: Bella Esher
Date: Tuesday 18th February 2014 at 10:54 PM

Thank you so much Alan. Much appreciated

Bella
Posted by: Becca {Email left}
Location: East Yorkshire
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 5:02 PM
Hello Alan, here I am again with yet another query in my Dorsey family.
I have just discovered that Sydney Dorsey Terry, born in Aldershot in 1876 served and died with the Canadian Infantry. I found this on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site. I wonder if you could tell me more about his service.

With many thanks

Becca

TERRY, SIDNEY DORSEY
Initials: S D
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Captain
Regiment/Service: Canadian Infantry (Central Ontario Regiment)
Unit Text: 102nd Bn.
Age: 41
Date of Death: 25/08/1917
Additional information: Son of Samuel Terry, of The Manse, Ash Vale, Aldershot, and the late Mary Terry.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: X. F. 9.
Cemetery: VILLERS STATION CEMETERY, VILLERS-AU-BOIS
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 7:38 PM

Dear Becca,
As he served with the Canadian Expeditionary Force his records will be held by the Library and Archives Canada in the name of Sidney Dersey (sic) Terry, reference RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 9574 44 Item Number: 275921. He enlisted 3rd January 1916 as a Lieutenant in the 67th Battalion stating he had served in South Africa 1899 1902.
To see his declaration paper and to purchase his service record, see:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/canadian-expeditionary-force.aspx
A Trooper S.D. Terry served with the South African Light Horse November 1899 October 1900. He appears to have risen to the rank of Colour Sergeant as a Colour Sergeant S D Terry was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in April 1901. He arrived back in South Africa on 16th April 1901 and served in the 22nd Battalion Imperial Yeomanry from 18th July 1901, and at some stage afterwards until the end of the Second Anglo-Boer War as a Lieutenant in the 44th (Suffolk) Company of the 12th Battalion Imperial Yeomanry. He relinquished his commission in The Imperial Yeomanry on September 5th 1902 and retained the rank of honorary Lieutenant. The records do not identify him further.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Becca
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 7:52 PM

Once again, my grateful thanks to you for such prompt reply. I shall have to search further for his Canadian service records.
Kind regards

Becca
Reply from: Joan Gaffiero
Date: Sunday 2nd March 2014 at 7:36 PM

Hi Becca, I was very interested to read your query re Sidney Dersey Terry as I have inherited a war memorial Plaque with his name on and was presented to his next of kin by King George V. The deceased died in battle in the 1st World War and my grand father was Harry Francis Terry born in UK but died in Malta where he married and lived till his death. I don't know the relationship between my grand father and Captain Terry who apparently served in the Canadian army. Of course I have more details re my grand father and if you re interested you can email me. (joangaffiero at gmail dot com).

Kind Regards
Joan Gaffiero.
Reply from: Becca
Date: Monday 3rd March 2014 at 11:31 AM

Joan,
Thanks for getting in touch. I tried several times last night to contact you, but all I got was that your e mail address was not known. There is a connection between your grandfather and Sidney, and I would like to share our knowledge about the family.

Please get in touch by my e mail, which I trust Bob will relay to you. I do not want to give it here.
Kind regards

Becca
Posted by: Suemsmith {Email left}
Location: Sheffield
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 3:05 PM
Dear Alan

You very kindly helped me out with George Mellor last week, and I wonder if I may presume upon you again.

We are helping to research those recorded on the WW1 memorial plaque in Ellastone Church, Staffordshire - there are 19 in total and we are making good progress with most (three of those recorded are my great uncles, including my grandmother's two brothers). However, as you will guess, in some cases we come up against a brick wall.

Could you please very kindly throw some light on

ROWLINSON, PERCY GEORGE, Air Mechanic 2nd Class, Service No:193110
Date of Death 21/06/1920 - Age: 19 - Royal Air Force

He is one of three buried in Ellastone Churchyard.

Many thanks in advance

Sue Smith
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 6:38 PM

Dear Sue,
There is some confusion among the records as to when Percy George Rowlinson died and it will be necessary to look at original documentation which is not available online.
He was born Percival George Rowlinson, at Ashbourne in Derbyshire in 1900 (Apr-May-Jun 1900 Vol 7B page 691) the son of Joseph Percival Rowlinson, a farmer, and his wife Gertrude Annie Isam. They married at Ashbourne in 1897. Gertrude died at Ashbourne, in 1900 and Percival was brought up by his maternal grand-parents Charles and Fanny Isam.
His name does not appear to be listed in the RAF Muster Roll of April 1918. An RAF service record for Percy George Rawlinson (sic) is available on application the The National Archives, at Kew, Surrey, in Catalogue reference AIR 79/1749/193110.
The GRO recorded his death as Rowlinson Percival G., aged 19, at Ashbourne Derbyshire in 1919 (Apr-May-June 1919 Vol 7B page 658).
The CWGC recorded his date of death as 21/06/1920.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Suemsmith
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 7:38 PM

Dear Alan

Thanks so much for your swift response - I will apply to National Archives.

Best wishes

Sue
Posted by: Ian Burt {Email left}
Location: Leyland Lancs
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 12:14 PM
I have a huge book called Memories Twenty Years Afterwards edited by E D Swinton. Does anyone know anything about this book?
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 12:21 PM

The articles were published as a part-work in 1938 and then published in three volumes "Twenty Years After" Volume 1, Volume 2, Supplementary Volume. The principle that the editor used was that each contributor had had personal experience of the war.
Reply from: Ian Burt
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 2:35 PM

My book does not seem to be volume 1 or anything like that - it is all bound in one huge book of nearly 1,500 pages. I am setting out to read it! It has thousands of photographs, often comparing places during the war with how they looked in 1938ish.
Posted by: Jonboy {Email left}
Location: Harlow Essex
Date: Sunday 16th February 2014 at 1:26 PM
Hi Alan
Hope all is well and that your not affected by these floods, can you help me out please on a George Hendrie he joined the Devonshire Regiment at Finsbury Service no 20072, all we know is that he was killed in action I think it was in France but not sure.
Kind regards
Jonboy
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 16th February 2014 at 3:30 PM

Dear Jonboy,
George Hendrie appears to be George Outhwaite S. Hendrie born at Westminster Bridge Road in July-Sept 1890 (Lambeth Vol 3D page 1D), son of William and Priscilla. No individual Army service record has survived for him. "Soldiers Died in the Great War" recorded he was born at "Westminster" and enlisted at Finsbury. He was killed in action serving as a Lance-Serjeant with the 2nd Battalion The Devonshire Regiment on 31st July 1917. The CWGC Debt of Honour records his name is commemorated on the Ypres Menin Gate Memorial to the missing. An Army medal rolls index card showed he entered France with the Devonshire Regiment as an acting-corporal. He qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. As he did not qualify for the 1914-15 Star for service overseas before December 31st 1915, he did not go to France until some date after January 1st 1916. The 2nd Bn Devonshire Regiment had been in France with the 23rd Infantry Brigade in 8th Division since 1914, so George would have been part of a draft of reinforcements to the battalion.
The date of his death was the opening day of The Battle of Pilckem Ridge, 31 July 2 August 1917, which was the opening attack of The Third Battle of Ypres.
With kind regards,
Alan

Thank you for your concern about the floods fortunately I live on high ground
Posted by: Tom {Email left}
Location: Perth Australia
Date: Saturday 15th February 2014 at 6:18 AM
Hi Alan
I have just stumbled across your website and forums.Very interesting!
Like everyone else, I am trying to find out a bit more about a deceased relative. I have spent weeks researching but so far have come up with nothing more than a few clues.
My granduncle's name is James Moore. I believe he was born in Dublin. He was born 1878 (+/-1) and died in 1957. I have a single portrait photograph of him in uniform. I also have a brass locket with a military emblem on it. All I have been able to work out is this.
The emblem on the locket in the artillery regiment. In the portrait photo, I believe the shoulder title to be R.G.A ( Royal Garrison Artillery) The photographer's stamp on the portrait is 'J H Bayley, Ripon'. I have found , via the net, that RGA No 4 Depot (Heavy and Siege) was based in Ripon though I can not ascertain when. On the back of the portrait photo is the number 41654. I suspect the photographer used James' service number instead of his name for when he collected his portrait though I am not certain that it is even his service number.

I have been on Ancestry and can not find any James Moore living in the Yorkshire area for the 1911 census or on any military record.
I was in Dublin over Christmas and found his grave. He is in the Grangegorman British Military cemetery, Dublin.
I am hoping to find out when James was in the army, his rank, role and where he served.
I hope you can be of some help and would appreciate any information you might be able to provide
Thanking you for your assistance
By the way, if it would help to see the portrait to view uniform etc please let me know.
Kind Regards
Tom
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 15th February 2014 at 3:02 PM

Dear Tom,
You would be fortunate to discover any surviving documents for James Moore. It seems probable from the shoulder title that he did serve in the Royal Garrison Artillery (RGA). The RGA had one of its training depots (No 4) at Ripon. It would have drawn men from throughout the United Kingdom. There is no evidence the number on the photograph is a regimental number and there is no entry in the Army Medal Rolls index for the number 41654 in the RGA. There are comparatively few service records that were not destroyed and those that have survived are on the Ancestry website. To undertake a search of the surviving records it is beneficial to establish James's parish of birth; address in 1914 and regimental number. It might be possible to identify him in the Irish census of 1901 or 1911. See:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Tom
Date: Saturday 15th February 2014 at 4:10 PM

Dear Alan
Thank you very much for your prompt response. I have tried the Irish Census but can not say with any certainty if any of the James Moores listed is who I am looking for as I have no information on other family members. James was related by marriage and I know nothing about his own family. He and my grand aunt had no children of their own and his grave - as I recently discovered - despite being in a military graveyard has no headstone, so I don't believe he was close to siblings, if any existed.
Anyway, would you have any idea when Depot 4 of the RGA was functional at Ripon as it would give me some idea of a timeframe. Also, in his photo, James has a ribbon above his left breast pocket. I know it is in black and white but could I send it to you to look at.(if possible, to which address?) You may be able to add a shred of information that could be helpful.

Thank you again and Kind Regards
Tom
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 15th February 2014 at 6:04 PM

Dear Tom,
Pre-1914 No 4 Depot RGA (Coastal) was at Great Yarmouth. At the outbreak of war the RGA was expanded and No 4 Depot (Heavy and Siege) was based at South Camp Ripon. South Camp Ripon was opened in late 1914 and was earmarked for disposal in 1920. I'm afraid it is not possible to post photographs on this forum. You could upload it to
http://tinypic.com/
and post the URL on the forum.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Tom
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 12:33 PM

Hi Alan
Thank you again for your information, it is certainly helping to put the jig saw together.
Here is a link to Dropbox file with two photos. One is James' portrait photo, the other a photo of two items belonging to him. Any information you could add would be greatly appreciated. As I mentioned, I know the ribbon bar is black and white but any suggestion would be great.
Thank you again
Tom

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/joy491msyamm1k1/wjNjQO_dM2
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 2:52 PM

Dear Tom,
James is wearing a war-time wool serge, five button, Service Dress tunic with turned down collar and reinforced shoulder pads to take the wear of the recoil from the rifle butt. The white artillery lanyard would have had a jack knife fastened to the end in the left pocket. Jack knives were issued from about 1903. They were carried in the left breast pocket of the Service Dress attached to a lanyard over the left shoulder. The lanyard could be used as an emergency firing lanyard for those guns which had a trigger firing mechanism, enabling the gunner to stand at arm's length of the gun's recoil. For active service in the First World War the lanyard was moved to the right shoulder, because the bandolier covered the left pocket preventing the knife from being removed. The photograph was therefore taken before active service in the First World War when the lanyard would have appeared on the other shoulder. The shoulder title is RGA.
This pattern of Service Dress jacket was in use until late 1915 when the pattern was simplified to reduce costs. The photograph appears to be a studio portrait. J.H. Bayley operated a studio at 4a North Street, Ripon in the first two decades of the 1900s.
It is possible that the photograph was taken during training at No 4 Depot RGA at South Camp, Ripon, in 1914/1915 prior to service with an overseas RGA Battery. The tunic and the lanyard suggest early days of the First World War. The medal ribbon bar is too broad for a single medal. No First World War campaign medal was instigated until April 1917, therefore the medals were probably for previous overseas service. The right hand ribbon has an obvious white stripe in the centre and the left hand ribbon appears to have multiple stripes of differing widths. If those descriptions are compared to published photographs of the Queen's South Africa Medal (on the viewer's left in the photograph) and the King's South Africa Medal, they do in fact match.
The Queen's South Africa Medal was for service in the Second Anglo-Boer War in South Africa between 11 October 1899 and 31 May 1902. The King's medal was issued by King Edward VII who had come to the throne on the death of Queen Victoria on 22 January 1901. He granted the medal to holders of the Queen's Medal South Africa who were serving in South Africa on or after 1 January 1902, and completed had 18 months service before 1 June 1902.
It is not certain that James qualified for the medal with the Royal Garrison Artillery. He could have been with any regiment; he may have been a pre-war regular soldier or he might have served as a volunteer solely for the Boer War.
He would probably be absent from the 1901 census, as he was probably overseas.
Medal rolls for the QSA and KSA are available but the entries are recorded by the man's initial, surname and regimental number. There are 558 entries with at least one initial J & Moore, so it is not possible to identify an individual without already knowing his regiment and regimental number. (Search ancestry.com for J Moore in the UK, and open Military results for "UK Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949"; refine the search to South Africa Second Boer War).

The "Union Jack" flag pin-badge was probably sold as a fund-raising badge for such causes as prisoners of war or local hospital flag days. The other item is adapted from the badge of the Royal Regiment of Artillery with a King's Crown dating from the First World War; perhaps a brass button. It may have been made into a pocket watch fob, or even a little lady's locket if it opened as a lid, used as a miniature photo frame.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 17th February 2014 at 11:11 PM

Proof reading: In the fourth paragraph "He granted the medal to holders of the Queen's Medal South Africa who were serving in South Africa on or after 1 January 1902, and completed had 18 months service before 1 June 1902.It is not certain that James qualified for the medal with the Royal Garrison Artillery." should read:
"He granted the medal to holders of the Queen's South Africa Medal who were serving in South Africa on or after 1 January 1902, and had completed 18 months' service before 1st June 1902.
It is not certain that James qualified for the medals with the Royal Garrison Artillery."
Alan
Reply from: Tom
Date: Tuesday 18th February 2014 at 12:43 PM

Alan
Thank you so very much for you post. Your information has been most helpful and I am slowly starting to build a picture of my grand uncle. Alan,may I complement you on your depth of knowledge on this subject matter, your attention to detail and your willingness to help and inform those trying to discover more about their relatives. You have provided me with more information in a couple of emails than in the weeks I have been looking online. I now the incentive to continue!
Thank you again.
Kind regards
Tom

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