Alan Greveson's World War 1 Forum (Page 128)

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Posted by: Jeannie
Location: Stockton On Tees
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 5:15 PM
Hello Alan
You gave me some information several weeks ago about finding out more of a distant relative who served in WW1. Thank you. I have another query, about my grandfather's cousin. He is Harry M Carter, born about 1888. On CWGC site, he died 17/4/1916. He was serving with the Yorkshire Regiment, 3rd Bn. His service no: 26788, and he is buried in Durham Rd Cemetery, Stockton on Tees. I cannot find an MIC for him or his service record. Was this batallion a reserve and would there be a war diary for it? Thank you. Jeannie
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 7:22 PM

Dear Jeannie,
Harry Carter served with the 3rd Battalion Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own (Yorkshire Regiment) when he died. This was a training battalion based at Hartlepool in 1916. "Soldiers Died in the Great War" recorded that he had "died" as opposed to being killed, at "Home" which meant the UK. As there is no medal card for him he probably did not serve abroad. However, soldiers who were in hospital were also administered by the 3rd Battalion of a regiment, as that battalion acted as an administrative depot for them if they had been struck off the strength of a fighting battalion. You could order his death certificate to see if it recorded the cause and place of death. His death appears to have been registered at Hartlepool as Harry M. Carter in April-June 1916 age 27, volume 10A page 178. See:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Jeannie
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 7:59 PM

Hello Alan
Many thanks for your prompt reply. A truly wonderful and informative site. Jeannie
Posted by: Sandra
Location: Leeds
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 1:56 PM
Dear Alan,
Please could you find out any information on my late Grandmother's brother.
He was killed in WW1 in France.
This is the only information I have on him.

James Williams, his mothers name was Josephine Williams.
Lancaster Street
Netherfield Road
Liverpool 5.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Regards Sandra
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 4:04 PM

Dear Sandra,
It is not possible to identify a soldier by his name only. There were many James Williams and more than one from Liverpool who died during the war.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Sandra
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 7:16 PM

Dear Alan,
Thank you anyway. It was worth a try.
Regards Sandra
Posted by: Elaine {Email left}
Location: Warrington
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 12:31 PM
Hello,
I am trying to find out some information about my Grandfather. He was in the Kings Liverpool Reg i do not have his number. I have found a book which he sent to his wife in the back he wrote this,
C.S.M Harry Bennett
203, P.O.W. Camp,
C.M.F
19 Dec 44
Pompei
I have tried to find out about this camp and all i can find is it is a pow hospital in bologna italy. I was looking to find a picture of it and any information but not getting much from the internet could you please help.
Thank You
Elaine
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 3:32 PM

Dear Elaine,
I am not able to research soldiers from the Second World War as their records are still held securely by the Ministry of Defence. The MoD will release certain amounts of information about a deceased person depending on whether you are next of kin or not. You can apply using the forms for next of kin, or with permission of next of kin, or as a general enquirer. See:

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html

You will need proof of death; date of birth or service number; next of kin's permission (unless you are the direct next of kin); a cheque and completed forms Part 1 and 2. The next of kin form (Part 1) is for completion by the next of kin of deceased service personnel (or enquirers with the consent of next of kin). Look for "Service records publications" under "Related pages" and follow the instructions. The Part 2 form is entitled: "Request forms for service personnel Army" found under "Related Pages". Otherwise use a general enquirer's form. A cheque for GBP 30 should be made payable to "The MoD Accounting Officer" and sent to Army Personnel Centre Secretariat, Disclosures 2, Mail Point 515, Kentigern House, 65, Brown Street, Glasgow G2 8EX Scotland with all the paperwork.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Elaine
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 4:19 PM

Thank you very much for you help and information
Posted by: Rebecca {Email left}
Location: Bristol
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 6:51 PM
Dear Alan,

Further to your reply, I just wondered, what did Alan do for the rest of the time between July 1916 and November 1917? Did he go out to France or stay in England?

Thank you again.

Rebecca
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 7:02 PM

He underwent training in England.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Rebecca
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 7:05 PM

Dear Alan, Many thanks, I suspected this was where he was as the letters home seem to all be to England. thank you again for your help.
Rebecca
Posted by: Tony Cunningham {Email left}
Location: Abram Wigan
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 6:09 PM
Hi Alan

I just wanted with your expertise to see if you can sort out a problem for me that's been bugging me for a while and it concerns my Grandad Thomas Cunningham born in 1882 in Wigan.I have a photo of him in army uniform and started to delve into his army history.going back to when I was a lad I remember my dad talking about he's dad my grandad that he had lost his sight by mustard gas in the war,I acquired a number of army records and it stated he was in the kings own reg but was dismissed from the army due to being unfit for duty. what it is I want to know Alan why for what reason was he unfit for duty could it have had something to do with being or going blind and was he in more than one reg before he tried to join up into the kings own reg. I have all is records and a photo if you want to I will send them on and would be very grateful for what you think really happened.

Tony
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 6:36 PM

I can search for his record if you know his regimental number and which King's Own regiment he was in.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Tony
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 9:04 PM

Hi Alan

tell you what you don't mess about do you, thanks Alan, his reg number is 21951 Kings Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment)

tony
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 11:00 PM

Dear Tony,
The only obvious record for Thomas Cunningham 21951 King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) is an index card for the Silver War Badge which was issued to men who had been discharged from the army through sickness or wounds. The record showed he enlisted with the 3rd Battalion King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) on 10th January 1916. The 3rd battalion of any regiment was its UK depot battalion. The 3rd Royal Lancaster had moved to Plymouth in 1916.
Thomas Cunningham was discharged as NLES (not likely to become an efficient soldier) on 24th February 1916 under King's Regulations paragraph 392 as "medically unfit for military service". The War Badge list H 1303 showed he did not serve overseas. His address was shown as 188, Belle Green, Wigan. The badge was issued to him on 10 August 1917.

NLES covered a multitude of conditions from eyesight to mental health and physical weight. The story about being blinded by mustard gas would have required him to have served overseas. There is no obvious record that he did so, unless you have further evidence. Mustard gas did not necessarily blind men permanently. The droplets of mustard gas liquid caused severe skin burns, but the explosion of the shell usually caused vaporisation of the liquid and the vapour caused a swelling of all exposed moist skin including the eyelids, which closed through inflammation. Once relieved, the eyelids opened and sight was restored.

Oral history is not always accurate and is difficult to substantiate without documentary evidence.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Tony
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 11:33 PM

Thanks Alan

its a lot clearer to me now the key thing was for me was that the war badge showed he did not serve overseas

thanks again Alan your a star

tony
Reply from: Tony Cunningham
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 1:13 PM

Hi Alan

This post concern's not Thomas Cunningham born 1882 but he's son, my dad also Thomas, born 1919 and served in the army in ww2 I know a lot about which regiment's he was in, but had no success finding him in the archives I have his medal's and even know which prisoner of war camp he was in, all his paper's and all his document's from the war so I know lots about him. He ended up in the para's and he did a total of 47 drop's in the war the last one being at arnhem where he was shot and lost a lung.He died in 1966 when I was just 15 year old.he had a mate he was close to in the para's his name was John Mcdonald he would send a wreath every year for Remembrance Sunday .In 1980 he came down from Scotland on a flying visit to meet his buddies family, but at the time I was in a band and was on a booking that night so I did not have time to talk to him but my dad's sister's lad our Mick went out with him and talked about my dad and him in the war.Our Mick said that he said that my dad had saved his life in the war, he also said to our Mick did you know that your uncle Tommy had been in the SAS.Alan is it possible to find out if he was in the SAS and also if he was physical training examiner.His army number is 3451429.

thank's again Alan
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 3:33 PM

Dear Tony,
I am not able to research soldiers from the Second World War as their records are still held securely by the Ministry of Defence. The MoD will release certain amounts of information about a deceased person depending on whether you are next of kin or not. You can apply using the forms for next of kin, or with permission of next of kin, or as a general enquirer. See:

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html

You will need proof of death; date of birth or service number; next of kin's permission (unless you are the direct next of kin); a cheque and completed forms Part 1 and 2. The next of kin form (Part 1) is for completion by the next of kin of deceased service personnel (or enquirers with the consent of next of kin). Look for "Service records publications" under "Related pages" and follow the instructions. The Part 2 form is entitled: "Request forms for service personnel Army" found under "Related Pages". Otherwise use a general enquirer's form. A cheque for GBP 30 should be made payable to "The MoD Accounting Officer" and sent to Army Personnel Centre Secretariat, Disclosures 2, Mail Point 515, Kentigern House, 65, Brown Street, Glasgow G2 8EX Scotland with all the paperwork.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Tony
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 3:41 PM

Thanks once again Alan your so good
Reply from: Tony Cunningham
Date: Sunday 11th March 2012 at 12:58 PM

Hi Alan

Thanks again for the info about getting my dad's record's from the M.O.D.and it's all in hand thank's to you.I would be very grateful if it is possible for you to find any info on my other grandad on my mam's side. Edward Quinn d.o.b.1870 boer war 1899~1902 6th battalion of Lancashire Fusiliers Regiment reg number 2718. He lived at 188 Ince Green Lane Hr Ince Wigan, I know he was a sergeant because I have a photo of him.

yours gratefully
& many thanks
tony
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 11th March 2012 at 8:51 PM

Dear Tony,
The only obvious surviving record for Sgt E Quinn 2718 is a medal roll from April 1901 for the Queen's South Africa Medal which was compiled by the 6th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers (formerly the Second Volunteer Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers). This was a militia battalion of part-time home-defence soldiers, many of whom then volunteered to serve in South Africa. These volunteers served in "service companies" for the lump sum of five pounds. Lancashire was particularly strong in militia volunteers. Many served in South Africa from before April 1900 and the Inspector General of Auxiliary Forces said: "For instance there are the Manchesters, two very good strong battalions, that I did not send out because I had already sent out the Lancasters, the South Lancashires and the Lancashire Fusiliers, and so many others, that I thought it would rather dislocate trade if I took everybody from one county and nobody from another". See Jim O'Brien's article at:
http://www.victorianmilitarysociety.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60:militiamen-in-the-second-anglo-boer-war-&catid=10:articles&Itemid=9

The 6th Battalion provided 98 men to serve in the three service companies that were raised by the three militia battalions of Lancashire Fusiliers which supported the regular army (2nd Battalion) or served with the Imperial Yeomanry and other corps.
Walter Richards, writing "His Majesty's Territorial Army" (vol 2, 1910) stated: "It was not the fortune of these representatives to share in the better-known of any engagements outpost, fatigue and escort duty being their principle work, varied by the construction of bridges and block-houses."
He went on: "Though the volunteer service companies did not chance to be engaged in any of the more important actions in the war in which their comrades of the Line battalion gained undying fame, they did plenty of arduous, dangerous and useful work, and earned the unstinted praise of the officers under whose command they from time to time were."
There were three service companies "K", "M" and "N" which were formed from all the volunteers of the Lancashire Fusilier Brigade supporting the regular army 2nd Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers.
Sgt Quinn qualified for the South Africa Medal for service at the front before 31 December 1901. He was awarded two clasps: Cape Colony and Orange Free State. These were both "state" clasps which indicated service within a state where no "battle" clasp had been earned for participation in a recognised action.
The Regimental Museum is at Bury, Lancashire. See:
http://www.fusiliermuseum.com/

Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Tony
Date: Monday 12th March 2012 at 1:11 PM

Hi Alan

Thank's a lot for all the info about my grandad Quinn i've read it though a dozen times and i think i've got it now, me being a bit thick,i would be grateful if i get wrong to let me know here goes .Edward Quinn joined the home defence or the T.A. he volunteered to enlist in the 6th Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers for a price of £5 were as he went to work in construction and other duties.Edward did not see any action in the war but was awarded the Queens South Africa medal and two clasps for service rendered.

Yours Gratefully
tony
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 12th March 2012 at 1:45 PM

Hi Tony,
That sums it up from what I have found. He may have seen some action, but it appears it would not have occurred in a named engagemnent.

Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Tony
Date: Monday 12th March 2012 at 3:30 PM

Thanks for everything Alan
tony
Reply from: Tony
Date: Tuesday 20th March 2012 at 5:34 PM

Hi Alan

I was wondering if you could find anything on my great uncle Charles Horne dob 1885 who lived in Wigan and joined the Royal Navy.

Thanks Alan

Tony
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 20th March 2012 at 5:49 PM

Dear Tony,
Navy records can be downlaoded from the National Archives for a fee of GBP 3-50. See:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/royal-navy-service.asp
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Tony
Date: Tuesday 20th March 2012 at 5:56 PM

Thanks Alan once again.

tony
Posted by: Louise {Email left}
Location: Leeds
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 1:08 PM
Dear Alan,
After receiving from yourself so much detailed information on my G-Granfather George H Price yesterday, I wondered if you could kindly help me again with my other G-Grandfather.
He was in WW1, Cornelius Denvir, 8th Reg. Bat. West Yorkshire Regiment. Reg. no. 4355.

I believe he enlisted in 1915 & was discharged 1916, for what reason I do not know. His next of kin would have been his wife Elizabeth Denvir, his parents were John Denvir & Mary McNeal. He was born in County Down, Ireland but moved to Leeds before he enlisted.
Any information on him or his regiment would be very useful.

Kindest Regards
Louise
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 6:40 PM

Dear Louise,
A medal card for C Denvir (and Corneluis Danver) applied only to the Silver War Badge which was never claimed by the man. The Silver War Badge was to be worn on civilian clothes to show a man had been discharged from the army through sickness or wounds. He was not awarded any medals for overseas service.
The card showed he enlisted on 3rd August 1915 in the 8th Battalion The Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment) (Leeds Rifles). The original 8th Battalion had gone to France in April 1915. Cornelius "Danver" enlisted in the reserve 3rd/8th Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment which was raised at Carlton Barracks in Leeds in March 1915 and moved to Clipstone Camp near Nottingham.
The birth of a Cornelius Denvir to John and Mary was registered in 1867 which would have meant he was 48 years old when he enlisted. He claimed he was 38. He was discharged under Paragraph 392 (xvi) Kings Regulations as "no longer physically fit for war service" aged 49, and did not serve overseas.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Louise
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 7:50 PM

Dear Alan,
Once again many thanks for the information you sent me. I would of have never found out everything about my great grandfathers army lives without your amazing help. Your knowledge is incredible.
Kindest regards Louise.
Posted by: Cathyk {Email left}
Location: Leeds
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 11:48 AM
Dear Alan

Thank you once again with the information regarding my grandfather Joe Lomas.
Now I am seeking help with my other grandfather Clifford Wilson also from Leeds..
I have found his attestation paper on Ancestry dated 12/05/15. It says No 2262. Would this be his regimental No? It also says he joined the West Riding Brigade of the RFA. I am having trouble locating his medal card and also would like to know where he saw action. He survived the war.

Thank you

CathyK
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 6:41 PM

Dear Cathyk,
Clifford Wilson served with the 2nd/1st West Riding Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery which was raised to supplement the original 1st West Riding Brigade that had existed before the war as part of the Territorial Army. When the 1st West Riding Brigade left for France, the gap was filled by creating the 2nd/1st West Riding Brigade at Fenton Street barracks in Leeds. The Brigade became renumbered as 310 Brigade RFA and was part of the 62nd (West Riding) Division which trained in the UK at various locations until it was sent to France in January 1917 concentrating between the Canche and Authie rivers. The Division took part in the The Operations on the Ancre (15 February - 13 March); The German retreat to the Hindenburg Line (14 - 19 March); The first attack on Bullecourt (part of the Arras offensive) (11 April); and The German attack on Lagnicourt (15 April). The Battle of Bullecourt started on May 3 1917 and Clifford Wilson was wounded by shrapnel in the left shoulder on May 5th 1917. He returned to the UK on the Hospital Ship "Western Australia" and was treated in hospital at Manchester. After he recovered he was with the 4th Reserve Brigade RFA at High Wycombe until 25th January 1918 when he was sent to Italy where the British were supporting the defence of Italy against the Austrians. He was sent via the 48th Divisional Ammunition Column to join 240 Brigade RFA which was serving with the 48th Division. The Division took the front line sector at the Montello in March and then moved to the Asiago sector, fighting at the Asiago Plateau (15-16 June) and
in the Val d'Assa (1-4 November). The Division captured General von Ritter-Romer the commander of the Austrian III Corps and about fourteen battalions. At the Armitisce (which was on 4 November), the Division had moved forward and was eight miles North-west of Levico.
Clifford suffered influenza in November 1918 and was treated at Lido d'Albaro at Genoa. On 2 January 1919 he returned to the UK for demobilization from Ripon. When he joined 240 Brigade he was allotted a new number which was 775838. A medal card in that number showed he qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Cathyk
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 10:03 PM

Dear Alan

Thank you so much for this latest information, Can I ask where you got it all from? Were you able to find Clifford's service record?
I had no idea he was wounded or served in Italy. I thought he had only been in France. I didn't know about the 'flu either. He was fortunate to have survived that!
Best Wishes
CathyK
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 10:37 PM

Dear CathyK,
You can find his service record on Ancestry.co.uk. If you do not have a subscription to Ancestry your local library may offer free access if you are a member of the Leeds library service. The records are also available free at the UK National Archives at Kew if you visit in person. Considering the train fare to Kew, joining the Leeds library for nothing would be a better bet. See:
http://www.leeds.gov.uk/Leisure_and_culture/Libraries.aspx

Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Cathyk
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 8:52 AM

Dear Alan

Thank you so much for all your help. I had found Clifford's attestation paper on Ancestry but hadn't realised if i paged forward I would see the rest of his record. So I've learnt something new today!

Best Wishes

CathyK
Posted by: Rebecca {Email left}
Location: Bristol
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 10:27 AM
Dear Alan,

Please could you tell me anything more about the WW1 war record of my great uncle Alan Marsdin Moorhouse? Alan was born in 1893 in Wakefield. He died in 1948. I know his parents wanted him to get a commission and as late as November 1917 his mother was trying to get him commissioned but I get the feeling he wasn't interested. The only records that I can find seem to have been burnt and what writing remains, is very hard to read.

I think he was a gunner in the RA. Did he ever go to France or was he always stationed in the UK?
Did he ever get commissioned or did he remain a private?

Thank you so much for your help.

Rebecca Lisle
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 5:13 PM

Dear Rebecca,
Alan Moorhouse was conscripted into the Army on 17th July 1916. He was a private soldier with the rank of Gunner in the Royal Artillery but spent a month with the 1st Reserve Garrison Battalion of the Suffolk Regiment in November 1917. He wore spectacles and was graded medical category B. In December 1917 he was posted to the 56th Battery of 4a Reserve Brigade of the Royal Field Artillery at Woolwich. On 6 May 1918 he was sent to the Artillery Signalling Training Centre at Swanage. On 17th June 1918 he was psoted from there to the BEF in France where he first joined 298 Army Brigade RFA, which served with the 4th Army. On 16 November 1918 he was hospitalised with defective vision. He rejoined his unit on 1 December and was granted 14 days leave to the UK on 29 january 1919. On 26 March 1919 he was posted to 86 Army Brigade RFA which also served with the 4th Army. On 12th April 1919 he was sent to Germany with the 83rd Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery which was a Highland siege battery of the 4th Army. He was in Germany until August 14th 1919. He served some time at HQ Highland Division Artillery.
He returned to the UK on 15th August 1919 and was demobilized on October 10th 1919. He qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
His father was Lt Col Harry Moorhouse DSO of the 4th Bn KOYLI who was killed on 9 October 1917. He had earlier been wounded on 1 July 1916 was commanding a sector of the line at Thiepval Wood which was attacked by the enemy from 12.30 am in the early hours when he was wounded at 4 am. He held on for an hour and a half before seeking medical attention. At Passchendaele he was killed by a bullet.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Rebecca
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 5:37 PM

Dear Alan,

Thank you once again for a brilliant and detailed reply. I would never have found all that out. I can't thank you enough for this amazing service you provide.

And I should have said that I knew he was Lt Col Harry Moorhouse's son, but of course poor Alan wasn't such a hero as his brother and father.

Thank you,

Rebecca
Posted by: David Lloyd
Location: Bromsgrove
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 9:17 AM
Hi Alan,

I was wondering if you could help shed any further light on the WWI service record of my Great Grandfather, William Richard Lloyd. From subscribing to Ancestry, I have been able to find he enlisted on 10th December 1915, aged 23 years and 3 months, was assigned a regimental number (T/328864 and 324530 are indicated on his Short Service Form) and that he was drafted initially to the 2nd company of the Army Service Corps - Horse Transport Division, after medical records indicated he had severe myopia affecting his left eye. He was later transferred to Mechanised Transport (615 Company I think?). His Protection Certificate (Army Form Z 11) is stamped 3rd January 1919 in Portobello, Dublin. This form is marked SICK AND WOUNDED.

The most puzzling issue of his military history is that I cannot find a record for him in the medal index using any variation of his regimental number(s). I'd also like to know if there's any way to find a record of how he came to be 'sick and wounded'.

Any additional information about his ASC companies, where he was based or movements during his service, or anything else for that matter, would be fantastic.

Thanks very much in advance,

David
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th March 2012 at 5:12 PM

Dear David,
William Richard Lloyd would not appear in the medal rolls because he did not serve in a theatre of war; only in the UK.
He enlisted on December 10th 1915 under the Derby Scheme which was a last call for volunteers before compulsory conscription was introduced in 1916. Men who had not already volunteered were offered the chance to "volunteer now and join later". On December 11th 1915 William was passed to the Reserve and would have returned to his civilian job until called-up. He was medically examined on April 4th1916 when his eyesight problem was diagnosed. He was graded B for service in garrisons and again allowed back home to await call-up. He was re-mobilized on 27th April 1917 when he joined the Horse Transport section of the ASC No 2 Depot at Woolwich. In October 1917 he was with the 580 Company ASC (which was also known as the 7th Auxiliary Horse Transport Company) based at Aldershot where he had another medical inspection. On 15th November 1917 he was transferred to the Mechanical Transport section with a new number M/324530. On 15 January 1918 he had another medical inspection while at No 2 Company ASC MT at Norwood ASC Depot which was in South-east London and controlled by the depot at Lee, Lewisham in London. "Left eye is of little use but not blind. Fit for all ASC work". On 26 April 1918 the depot at Lee noted he was transferred, but to which unit is undecipherable. When he was discharged from the Army on 20th February 1919 he was serving with the 615 Company ASC which was based at Dublin throughout the war. It was also known as 27th Local Auxiliary Company. A local auxiliary company provided transport for Home Service units. He had been discharged from the Irish Command and was medically graded category III at The Curragh, Kildare. Grade III included men who had been in the former category B and were suitable for clerical or sedentary work. He was not sick and wounded but his medical grade grouped him with the "sick and wounded". His record noted he served at "Home" only. He was transferred to the Class Z Reserve on 20 February 1919 which included men liable to be re-called to the colours if the Armistice did not hold. The Class Z Reserve was deemed to have ended on March 31st 1920.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: David
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 9:09 AM

Hi Alan,

Many, many thanks for your time and effort looking into William's record for me - I guess looking at as many records as you do, you get used to looking at various forms and the chain of how these things happen - I got lost in the order and condition of all the papers, so found it difficult to piece the story together.

In the process of examining William Lloyd's histroy, it has come to light that his father-in-law, William J Allen, may have served too (his profession is indicated as 'Soldier' on William Lloyd's marriage certificate signed in 1915). We're sure he will have been in the Birmingham area and he was born around 1869 according to the 1901 Census records. Any military information you can source again would be gratefully recevied.

Huge thanks again for your efforts.

David
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 1:42 PM

Dear David,
I'm afraid it is not practicable to search for William Allen without more specific details for him. There were more than a thousand men of that name in the army and more than a hundred with the middle initial J. in the First World War.
Only about a third of service records have survived and there are no obvious ones from 1869. The name of a father on a marriage certificate does not indicate the father was alive at the time of the marriage, and so he could have been a solider before the First World War.
Kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: David
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 9:58 PM

Hi Alan,

Thanks again for the efforts, it seems he must have been a soldier from a young man as we have found a census record from 1891 which indicates he was a solider in his early 20s.

You've been a big help.

Dave
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 9th March 2012 at 10:08 PM

Hi Dave
Try searching for Victorian army service records on the Findmypast.co.uk webiste. They have pay as you go. The entries are indexed by name, approximate birth year and place of birth.
Kind rgards
Alan
Posted by: Gill Clayton
Location: Southwell
Date: Wednesday 7th March 2012 at 4:29 PM
Dear Alan - your website has been recommended by a good friend because I am having difficulty deciphering some documents from Ancestry.I have managed to locate his pension records HORACE JOSEPH BARBER -DOB 9.5.1895 Served in the Royal Fusiliers. Occupation before joining was Dental Surgeon. I can't make out his rank or Regiment - perhaps the 44 th. My brothers and i would like to know of his movements whilst in the Army. Our father told us HJB joined up in 1916 before the Somme where he was injured - then was set to work in the field stations or hospitals at the front? Should be very grateful for any help in this matter.

With thanks - Gill
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 7th March 2012 at 8:17 PM

Dear Gill,
There is no supporting evidence to verify the story that Horace Joseph Barber fought on the Somme.
Horace Barber was conscripted at the end of 1916 and served as a non combatant. He was medically examined on August 7th 1916 at Norwich and was called up for service on 27th December 1916 with T Company RAMC. On 22 January 1917 he was medically downgraded and on 10 February 1917 he was posted to 304th Field Ambulance RAMC in the UK. He was transferred to a Labour Company of the Royal Fusiliers on 15 April 1917 and was transferred to the 302nd Depot Labour Company of the Labour Corps on 12th May 1917. The Labour Corps was formed in 1917 from the various regimental labour companies to provide a workforce comprised of men not fit enough to serve at the front. He was sent to France with the Labour Corps on May 17th 1917.
He was sent to the Labour Corps base depot at Boulogne the next day and was posted to the 217th Divisional Employment Company on 28th May 1917. From August 1st 1917 until 22 November 1917 he was in hospital being treated for shingles. On 1 December 1917 he joined 197 Labour Company and was then posted top 715 Labour Company on 2nd February 1918. On 13th February he was again admitted to hospital for a fortnight with "ICT Face" (Pyodermia - caused mainly due to parasitic disease). He was again admitted to hospital on 8 March 1918. On 16th March he was returned to the base depot at Boulogne and was sent from there to 719 Area Employment Company. On 30th April 1918 he was re-admitted to hospital and returned to his unit on 10th May 1918. He was granted leave to the UK between 9 and 22 July 1918. On 23 August 1918 he was attached to No 9 Area Employment Company at Boulogne. On 7th September 1918 he was transferred to the 44th Garrison Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers, which served as a guard battalion to Headquarters staff. He was granted leave to the UK at the end of January 1919 and the first week of February 1919. On 13th February he was admitted to hospital with hammer toe and was returned to the UK for medical discharge as no longer physically fit on 1 March 1919. He was discharged on 28th March 1919.
Kind regards,
Alan

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